Excessive celebration-Pinstripe Bowl

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Not really...you are making it sound like the official is disregarding the bullet points.

You are saying that if the official had done it the way the memo instructs that a foul would not have been called.

Whether he disregarded them, or just forgot them, in my opinion he didn't properly apply them. You disagree and that's fine.

These officials who called the foul are working a bowl game. I'm going to take a guess and say that they have read the memo as well as the rule book and know how to they are to judge these types of fouls. I'm sure that they went through the judgement process as they have been instructed to and simply judged the act to be a foul.

It is sad that you are saying that these officials are incompetent simply because you do not agree with their judgement.

Your words, not mine. I haven't said anyone is incompetent. If missing a call made an official incompetent, then we would all be incompetent.

As posters have decided to make this personal, I'm done with this thread.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Cobra

If you want a good laugh check out this discussion. HS official who doesn't understand the NFL replay system but still feels the need to bash the NFL officials. Pittsburg/Miami Fumble

I read it at the time. It was funny then and it is funny now. But then again when you have posted here for a long time you start to forget that there are others that know as much if not more than you do.

Peace

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Whether he disregarded them, or just forgot them, in my opinion he didn't properly apply them. You disagree and that's fine.



Your words, not mine. I haven't said anyone is incompetent. If missing a call made an official incompetent, then we would all be incompetent.

As posters have decided to make this personal, I'm done with this thread.

Hold on.

You just said that the official either "he disregarded them (the memo/bullet points), or just forgot them". Then you say that you are not saying that he is incompetent.

If an official is disregarding or forgetting how he has been instructed to do things, wouldn't that mean he is incompetent?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Hold on.

You just said that the official either "he disregarded them (the memo/bullet points), or just forgot them". Then you say that you are not saying that he is incompetent.

If an official is disregarding or forgetting how he has been instructed to do things, wouldn't that mean he is incompetent?

He will not admit that is what he is saying. He likes to be critical when it is convenient and then get mad at others for saying similar things about officials in other threads. Then he will claim you are full of it when he disagrees with you and you are giving an opinion just like he is.

And yes if you are ignoring or unaware of a directive from your bosses that is incompetence. What else could it be? Someone has to be incompetent based on the position he is taking. After all the entire conference is at fault remember.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

Plays like this were on the NCAA training video this year that instruct officials to flag this. He could have just as easily walked to his team area but instead he put the officials in a position to make a judgement call. 2 officials flagged it independently of each other. What do you do when you have a rule that says it's a foul?

When no one else is calling it that way, you don't call it. It was extremely inconsistent with the normal level of enforcement on post-score celebrations.

Originally Posted by Cobra

Not really...you are making it sound like the official is disregarding the bullet points.

You are saying that if the official had done it the way the memo instructs that a foul would not have been called.

I read those bullet points...by what is written by the NCAA the action didn't fit the NCAA's criteria for a flag.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I read those bullet points...by what is written by the NCAA the action didn't fit the NCAA's criteria for a flag.

Well did you see the video examples? There have been a lot of videos on these situations and gestures to the crowd that were deemed illegal. Maybe there was not a "salute" but there are many actions including several signals that were said to be illegal and inappropriate.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Dave Parry and NCAA Rules Committee Chair Connecticut coach Randy Edsall speak up on situation

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well did you see the video examples? There have been a lot of videos on these situations and gestures to the crowd that were deemed illegal. Maybe there was not a "salute" but there are many actions including several signals that were said to be illegal and inappropriate.

Peace

Perhaps so, but not one of a simiilar style/magnatude/duration has been called out of the many dozens (maybe hundreds) that I've seen. That is the wrong time to start calling it. That official was inconsistent with what his peers have been calling.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Dave Parry and NCAA Rules Committee Chair Connecticut coach Randy Edsall speak up on situation

Peace

Yes, he did...and he all but said it was not consistent with how it has been called over the season...

Parry also said the rule book supports officials who flagged......

"It's a judgment call, but technically speaking such acts that bring attention to yourself, those are fouls," he said. "Some people would say it's a little too technical, too marginal, but as it's written, officials are covered by the rule."

...

Edsall added he'd like to see more consistency in the way the rule is enforced.

"Well, I do think that there is some inconsistencies maybe between conferences. I think we're getting closer.

The language chosen here is not supportive of the officials. It just gives them a little cover. It is a lot closer to saying...."Yes, by the book, they got it right, but..."

There was no language along the lines of "It was a good call", "they made the right decision", etc.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Perhaps so, but not one of a simiilar style/magnatude/duration has been called out of the many dozens (maybe hundreds) that I've seen. That is the wrong time to start calling it. That official was inconsistent with what his peers have been calling.

Let me get this straight. We should not call something that is right just because everyone is wrong, just to be consistent? We are going to blatantly ignore a rule that we have been enforcing because everyone is wrong and we have to be consistent?

You do realize that the examples that the NCAA gave happen during Bowl games mostly? The one of the examples the NCAA used was from a bowl game and was not enforced properly and they asked the officials in the Pre-Season video.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

There was no language along the lines of "It was a good call", "they made the right decision", etc.

You also left out the part where he says we have talked about this for years and the Chairman of the Rules Committee who is also a coach at UCONN said it was the right call. You can split hairs over whether it was right or wrong to call, but when there is a rule supporting it and the people are commenting that the rules are there, then why put yourself in that situation?

I am not having a debate only that this was the right call. This was in the rulebook for years.

Peace

[ajmc]

I don't know how dead this horse has to get. This was a call some will think was appropriate, some inappropriate due to the circumstances, some too technical, some would have made it, some would have chosen not to call it, and life goes on.

Everbody is entitled to their opinion, but the only only opinions that matter are those of the two field officials who ruled on it. It just doesn't matter whether you might be leaning leniently, or you might believe in strict enforcement UNLESS you happen to be a player or coach associated with the game being worked, then it becomes how much risk you want to accept guessing how your field officials might consider certain behavior.

We each have to make judgments about how what we see applies, of fails to apply, to the rules as we understand them, and we are responsible for those decisions. That's where it ends, and is where it's supposed to end (video replay aside). We may be entitled to our opinion, but that's all it is or ever will be.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ajmc

I don't know how dead this horse has to get. This was a call some will think was appropriate, some inappropriate due to the circumstances, some too technical, some would have made it, some would have chosen not to call it, and life goes on.

Everbody is entitled to their opinion, but the only only opinions that matter are those of the two field officials who ruled on it. It just doesn't matter whether you might be leaning leniently, or you might believe in strict enforcement UNLESS you happen to be a player or coach associated with the game being worked, then it becomes how much risk you want to accept guessing how your field officials might consider certain behavior.

We each have to make judgments about how what we see applies, of fails to apply, to the rules as we understand them, and we are responsible for those decisions. That's where it ends, and is where it's supposed to end (video replay aside). We may be entitled to our opinion, but that's all it is or ever will be.

I agree with everything you are saying but think the supervisor or advisers also are the people that matter. These officials will have to answer to who hires them as to why this was or was not a good call and if they are OK with it, it really does not matter what we say here.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Let me get this straight. We should not call something that is right just because everyone is wrong, just to be consistent? We are going to blatantly ignore a rule that we have been enforcing because everyone is wrong and we have to be consistent?

You do realize that the examples that the NCAA gave happen during Bowl games mostly? The one of the examples the NCAA used was from a bowl game and was not enforced properly and they asked the officials in the Pre-Season video.

Peace

The point is that you don't call something with a 1 minute to go in the last game of the season that hasn't been called all season no matter how long it has been in the book. The time to establish a new level of enforcement is the first game of the season.

[TXMike]

Have you tracked these guys all season? How do you know THEY have not made THIS call before or that they had even seen the act before?