Excessive celebration-Pinstripe Bowl

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I read those bullet points...by what is written by the NCAA the action didn't fit the NCAA's criteria for a flag.

Well did you see the video examples? There have been a lot of videos on these situations and gestures to the crowd that were deemed illegal. Maybe there was not a "salute" but there are many actions including several signals that were said to be illegal and inappropriate.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Dave Parry and NCAA Rules Committee Chair Connecticut coach Randy Edsall speak up on situation

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Dave Parry and NCAA Rules Committee Chair Connecticut coach Randy Edsall speak up on situation

Peace

Yes, he did...and he all but said it was not consistent with how it has been called over the season...

Parry also said the rule book supports officials who flagged......

"It's a judgment call, but technically speaking such acts that bring attention to yourself, those are fouls," he said. "Some people would say it's a little too technical, too marginal, but as it's written, officials are covered by the rule."

...

Edsall added he'd like to see more consistency in the way the rule is enforced.

"Well, I do think that there is some inconsistencies maybe between conferences. I think we're getting closer.

The language chosen here is not supportive of the officials. It just gives them a little cover. It is a lot closer to saying...."Yes, by the book, they got it right, but..."

There was no language along the lines of "It was a good call", "they made the right decision", etc.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

There was no language along the lines of "It was a good call", "they made the right decision", etc.

You also left out the part where he says we have talked about this for years and the Chairman of the Rules Committee who is also a coach at UCONN said it was the right call. You can split hairs over whether it was right or wrong to call, but when there is a rule supporting it and the people are commenting that the rules are there, then why put yourself in that situation?

I am not having a debate only that this was the right call. This was in the rulebook for years.

Peace

[ajmc]

I don't know how dead this horse has to get. This was a call some will think was appropriate, some inappropriate due to the circumstances, some too technical, some would have made it, some would have chosen not to call it, and life goes on.

Everbody is entitled to their opinion, but the only only opinions that matter are those of the two field officials who ruled on it. It just doesn't matter whether you might be leaning leniently, or you might believe in strict enforcement UNLESS you happen to be a player or coach associated with the game being worked, then it becomes how much risk you want to accept guessing how your field officials might consider certain behavior.

We each have to make judgments about how what we see applies, of fails to apply, to the rules as we understand them, and we are responsible for those decisions. That's where it ends, and is where it's supposed to end (video replay aside). We may be entitled to our opinion, but that's all it is or ever will be.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ajmc

I don't know how dead this horse has to get. This was a call some will think was appropriate, some inappropriate due to the circumstances, some too technical, some would have made it, some would have chosen not to call it, and life goes on.

Everbody is entitled to their opinion, but the only only opinions that matter are those of the two field officials who ruled on it. It just doesn't matter whether you might be leaning leniently, or you might believe in strict enforcement UNLESS you happen to be a player or coach associated with the game being worked, then it becomes how much risk you want to accept guessing how your field officials might consider certain behavior.

We each have to make judgments about how what we see applies, of fails to apply, to the rules as we understand them, and we are responsible for those decisions. That's where it ends, and is where it's supposed to end (video replay aside). We may be entitled to our opinion, but that's all it is or ever will be.

I agree with everything you are saying but think the supervisor or advisers also are the people that matter. These officials will have to answer to who hires them as to why this was or was not a good call and if they are OK with it, it really does not matter what we say here.

Peace

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I agree with everything you are saying but think the supervisor or advisers also are the people that matter. These officials will have to answer to who hires them as to why this was or was not a good call and if they are OK with it, it really does not matter what we say here.

Peace

We all answer to someone, and longevity often depends on how well you handle that "answering" process. I suspect there are very different levels of answerability at different levels and different areas of the country. Perhaps the best, or at least safest, advice would be, "When in Rome....."

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well did you see the video examples? There have been a lot of videos on these situations and gestures to the crowd that were deemed illegal. Maybe there was not a "salute" but there are many actions including several signals that were said to be illegal and inappropriate.

Peace

Perhaps so, but not one of a simiilar style/magnatude/duration has been called out of the many dozens (maybe hundreds) that I've seen. That is the wrong time to start calling it. That official was inconsistent with what his peers have been calling.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Perhaps so, but not one of a simiilar style/magnatude/duration has been called out of the many dozens (maybe hundreds) that I've seen. That is the wrong time to start calling it. That official was inconsistent with what his peers have been calling.

Let me get this straight. We should not call something that is right just because everyone is wrong, just to be consistent? We are going to blatantly ignore a rule that we have been enforcing because everyone is wrong and we have to be consistent?

You do realize that the examples that the NCAA gave happen during Bowl games mostly? The one of the examples the NCAA used was from a bowl game and was not enforced properly and they asked the officials in the Pre-Season video.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Let me get this straight. We should not call something that is right just because everyone is wrong, just to be consistent? We are going to blatantly ignore a rule that we have been enforcing because everyone is wrong and we have to be consistent?

You do realize that the examples that the NCAA gave happen during Bowl games mostly? The one of the examples the NCAA used was from a bowl game and was not enforced properly and they asked the officials in the Pre-Season video.

Peace

The point is that you don't call something with a 1 minute to go in the last game of the season that hasn't been called all season no matter how long it has been in the book. The time to establish a new level of enforcement is the first game of the season.

[TXMike]

Have you tracked these guys all season? How do you know THEY have not made THIS call before or that they had even seen the act before?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The point is that you don't call something with a 1 minute to go in the last game of the season that hasn't been called all season no matter how long it has been in the book. The time to establish a new level of enforcement is the first game of the season.

So you know what these guys have or have not called all season? You know what has or has not been called by others? I have seen these penalties this season. I am not going to say I know for sure what has been called in every game or in every conference game, but I have seen this called this year. So to say one or two officials (in this case) are supposed to not call a blatant violation of the rules does not make sense to me at all. Again the rules are very clear. And this is why there are POEs in all kinds of sports to have officials enforce the rules because of attitudes like this.

I know I had called this personally in a high school game and a player was warned. I did so in the playoffs and did not once think about what happened during the rest of the season or knew what others had called. I think your expectation is unrealistic if we must know what everyone has done. It is possible that a crew in any conference is not totally aware of what others have specifically called unless there is something on the video each week to review.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So you know what these guys have or have not called all season? You know what has or has not been called by others? I have seen these penalties this season.

I've watched several games a week...every week. I've not seen one case of such a minor gesture called...and have seen much larger gestures also go uncalled. Sure it may have been called somewhere, sometime, but that doesn't make it the norm or consistent with what has been getting called.

What I have see is officials say something to the player...a warning.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I've watched several games a week...every week. I've not seen one case of such a minor gesture called...and have seen much larger gestures also go uncalled. Sure it may have been called somewhere, sometime, but that doesn't make it the norm or consistent with what has been getting called.

What I have see is officials say something to the player...a warning.

Not only did I see penalties for this year at that level, I have seen them for some years now when this directive was first made. I would not call it the norm as many players are not doing those things and next year they better get ready to have TDs taken away.

Peace