kickoff oob enforcement

[DLH17]

Didn't want to start a new thread, seems like there are so many that could be consolidated a bit. Anyway, running with the "kick off" theme:

What are the differences, if any, between h.s. and college rules regarding touchback rulings?

Scenario:

Team A kicks off to Team B. Team A return man does not indicate 'fair catch' and let's ball hit the turf and roll into the end zone untouched.

Is the ball live or dead? In h.s., this is an automatic touch back situation, no? Same in college?

[APG]

NCAA Rule
Rule 6, Section 1
Touching Ground On or Behind Goal Line
ARTICLE 7. When a free kick untouched by Team B touches the ground on or behind Team B’s goal line, the ball becomes dead and belongs to Team B.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by DLH17

In h.s., this is an automatic touch back situation, no?

I don't know what "automatic" adds, but yes, the NFHS rule is easy. Any kick (free or scrimmage) that crosses the plane of the goal line is a touchback, whether or not it has touched the ground, a player, an official, or anything else. It's still a kick until it has been caught, recovered, or becomes dead by rule.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Any kick (free or scrimmage) that crosses the plane of the goal line is a touchback, whether or not it has touched the ground, a player, an official, or anything else. It's still a kick until it has been caught, recovered, or becomes dead by rule.

thanks, mbyron.

is there anyone that can apply the college ruling?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by DLH17

thanks, mbyron.

is there anyone that can apply the college ruling?

Sure...

AllPurposeGamer can ... 2 posts before you asked.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Sure...

AllPurposeGamer can ... 2 posts before you asked.

............thanks

[With_Two_Flakes]

Difference is that in NFHS the ball is dead and a T/Back when it breaks the GL plane. In NCAA the ball is dead only when it touches the ground in the endzone.

The NFHS rule means that if a kid catches the ball in the endzone then no kickoff return is possible, the play was dead when the ball passed over the GL plane.
Whereas in the same scenario under NCAA rules, he could run it out if he wished.

[Robert Goodman]

Then let's try this one in NCAA & Fed. K's free or scrimmage kick is in the air and leaves the field of play just inside the pylon. R1 jumps from the playing area (please let's not get into the case where R1 touches out of bounds first) and reaches to try to catch the ball, touching it out of bounds behind R's goal line. Touchback or dead ball spot where the ball crossed the sideline?

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by DLH17

Didn't want to start a new thread, seems like there are so many that could be consolidated a bit. Anyway, running with the "kick off" theme:

What are the differences, if any, between h.s. and college rules regarding touchback rulings?

Scenario:

Team A kicks off to Team B. Team A return man does not indicate 'fair catch' and let's ball hit the turf and roll into the end zone untouched.

Is the ball live or dead? In h.s., this is an automatic touch back situation, no? Same in college?

NFHS is pretty simple, ANY/ALL legally kicked balls that break the plane of the receiving teams goal line are touchbacks. It doesn't matter who might have touched the kick, or how many times it was touched, where it's been, or who's signaled what, as long as it is still a kick, and the ball breaks the plane of R's goal line it's a TB.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by ajmc

NFHS is pretty simple, ANY/ALL legally kicked balls that break the plane of the receiving teams goal line are touchbacks.

Not if it is a scoring attempt.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by ajmc

NFHS is pretty simple, ANY/ALL legally kicked balls that break the plane of the receiving teams goal line are touchbacks. It doesn't matter who might have touched the kick, or how many times it was touched, where it's been, or who's signaled what, as long as it is still a kick, and the ball breaks the plane of R's goal line it's a TB.

Even if it first crossed the plane of a sideline between the goal lines?

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Even if it first crossed the plane of a sideline between the goal lines?

If a kick was able to, somehow, (strong wind?) cross the plane of a sideline before breaking the plane of R's goaline it would have no effect whatsoever on the status of the kick, unless of course the kick subsequently, " touches anything, including a player or game official that is out of bounds."(NF: 2-29-3), at which point the kick would be considered over and OOB.

The phrase, "breaks the plane of the receiving team's goal line" does not automatically include or reference the "goal line extended".

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by ajmc

If a kick was able to, somehow, (strong wind?) cross the plane of a sideline before breaking the plane of R's goaline it would have no effect whatsoever on the status of the kick, unless of course the kick subsequently, " touches anything, including a player or game official that is out of bounds."(NF: 2-29-3), at which point the kick would be considered over and OOB.

The phrase, "breaks the plane of the receiving team's goal line" does not automatically include or reference the "goal line extended".

Thanks. That's a distinction I hadn't considered and seems to make all the difference. My Fed rule book is very old but in both the kicking and scoring rules uses the phrase "on or behind R's goal line", and in definitions has one for "goal line" that makes that distinction clear, and does not have a definition for "behind" that would blur that distinction (nor any global definition of "behind").

NCAA's wording is similar regarding "goal line" and references thereto and has a definition of "behind" that fortunately you'd have to strain at to blur the distinction between goal line/plane and its extension.

Unfortunately NFL's definition of "in touch" seems to leave this matter unclear.