Fighting result in postseason ban

[BktBallRef]

The NCHSAA provides a playoff ban for teams that have 6 ejections for any reason or 3 ejections for fighting within the same season. During the regular season, 3 teams were banned from playoff eligibility for having at least 3 ejections for fighting.

Well, it's happened again.

This past Friday in the 2nd round of the playoffs, a team that was up by 4 TDs had 3 players ejected for fighting. Today, that team was removed from the playoffs and their 3rd round opponent was awarded a forfeit.

Just curious, do other states have a similiar polciy regarding ejections and losing playoff eligiblilty?

[jjb]

PA does not have this policy but I wish we did. 3 ejections in one game for fighting tells methe Head Coach does not have control of his team.

[bisonlj]

Indiana has an all-in tournament and to my knowledge has never banned anyone from participating. There was an incident in a playoff game this year though and the losing team may face a playoff ban next year.

[Texas Aggie]

Sounds like a step in the right direction, but I'd like to think my crew can keep better control of a game than what would end up with 3 fighting ejections -- assuming you mean 3 different instances. Even with 3 players in one instance, that's nuts.

Of course, some situations happen and there's little the officials can do. Perhaps that was applicable here.

[JRutledge]

I do not know of any specific policy, but players can and will be suspended. I am sure coaches could be too. My state did remove a team from the post season for an unrelated issue, so I am sure it is in their power to do so. But I know of nothing that changes the penalties just because there is a fight.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Sounds like a step in the right direction, but I'd like to think my crew can keep better control of a game than what would end up with 3 fighting ejections -- assuming you mean 3 different instances. Even with 3 players in one instance, that's nuts.

Of course, some situations happen and there's little the officials can do. Perhaps that was applicable here.

Personally, I don't think we as officials have much control f what players do. We can try to talk to them or throw flags but in the long run, they couldn't care less what we say or do. Only coaches have any real control over their players. And then, there's only enough control to pull them off the field when they see a red flag.

For example, during week two of the season, a fight broke out after a kickoff when an opponent went after the kicker. Coaches and players from both bench came onto the field. The asst. coaches were able to keep some players on the bench but 4 more players fought. 3 were ejected from each team.

This game happened within our local association. The fight broke out with 4 minutes to play in the second qtr. with the home team leading 45-7. They had just gone for 2 and then kicked and onside kick.. Our crew had already thrown 5 USC and 3 PF flags prior to the fight.

The second situation occurred with 3 players from one team and 2 players from the opposing team being ejected after subs from both side came onto the field during week 7 of the regular season. This was a different local association.

The third situation occurred during the second week of the playoffs with the same results as the second situation above, 3 and 2 ejections. A third local association worked that game.

Prior to these three situations this year, this rule has never come into play before.

Again, I don't think there's much officials can do in these types of situations. See the Finnegan-Johnson fight yesterday?

[rockyroad]

Bktballref - does this rule mean three separate situations involving ejections for fighting? Or three kids get ejected from one fight and the school is done?

If it's the first, I think it's a great rule. If it's the second, it seems like overkill. If I - as a Coach - have a team that gets into three separate fights during the year, then we have a problem and deserve whatever the State hands down. If it's one incident and three (or more) of my players get involved, then those players need to be dealt with, but don't penalize the entire team.

[HLin NC]

ITs 3 players total.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

ITs 3 players total.

Wow. Then it is really harsh and over the top, imho.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Bktballref - does this rule mean three separate situations involving ejections for fighting? Or three kids get ejected from one fight and the school is done?

If it's the first, I think it's a great rule. If it's the second, it seems like overkill. If I - as a Coach - have a team that gets into three separate fights during the year, then we have a problem and deserve whatever the State hands down. If it's one incident and three (or more) of my players get involved, then those players need to be dealt with, but don't penalize the entire team.

6 ejections for the year or 3 ejections or fighting (whether one incident or 2 or 3 separate incidents) results in a playoff ban.

How would you feel about the team being penalized if a majority or all of the substitutes and coaches came onto the field?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

6 ejections for the year or 3 ejections or fighting (whether one incident or 2 or 3 separate incidents) results in a playoff ban.

How would you feel about the team being penalized if a majority or all of the substitutes and coaches came onto the field?

Hmmmm...so basically a "brawl". I guess in my warped little mind that is a different scenario than one where two guys start going at it and two others on the field get involved and those three get tossed. If the whole sideline pours onto the field then we deserve whatever the punishment is.

Had a situation a few years back where one of my players got absolutely decleated from behind about 5 seconds after the whistle. He, his older brother, and their cousin all went after the other kid. All 3 got tossed (along with 4 or 5 of the other team). So that would have knocked us out of the playoffs there??? And the other team would have been knocked out also?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Hmmmm...so basically a "brawl". I guess in my warped little mind that is a different scenario than one where two guys start going at it and two others on the field get involved and those three get tossed. If the whole sideline pours onto the field then we deserve whatever the punishment is.

And that's exactly what happened in all three games. It's very difficult in football to eject bench personnel for coming on the field in football, since you could have up to 22 substitutions after any play. Who's to say who was entering the field legally and who wasn't? It's just flat out difficult to know who should/shouldn't be on the field.

So while the officiating crews didn't penalize anyone except those who fought, there was plenty of video evidence showing the benches clearing. I believe all of the school systems involved took additional disciplinary action against individuals who left the sidelien.

Had a situation a few years back where one of my players got absolutely decleated from behind about 5 seconds after the whistle. He, his older brother, and their cousin all went after the other kid. All 3 got tossed (along with 4 or 5 of the other team). So that would have knocked us out of the playoffs there??? And the other team would have been knocked out also?

Yes, both would have been done.

I don't know what the answer is but I believe there has to be some consequence for the school and the program when this type of thing happens. Otherwise, there's no real incentive in trying to be proactive in preventing it.

But I would really rathr have rules that might be overly stringent than have the mess they'v got going on in WVa.

New restraining order would halt AAA football championship

Incidentally, the NCHSAA has NEVER lost a court battle in one of these situations.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I don't know what the answer is but I believe there has to be some consequence for the school and the program when this type of thing happens. Otherwise, there's no real incentive in trying to be proactive in preventing it.

But I would really rathr have rules that might be overly stringent than have the mess they'v got going on in WVa.

New restraining order would halt AAA football championship

Incidentally, the NCHSAA has NEVER lost a court battle in one of these situations.

Wow! That is really ridiculous...

I understand what you are saying. And I actually agree that stricter punishments are more effective than lesser ones. If WVa had a rule like yours, they would not be in this mess.