Pick your ruling

[Welpe]

The correct answer is C but get ready for an argument!

[DrMooreReferee]

Originally Posted by Welpe

The correct answer is C but get ready for an argument!

LOL,,, why do say that? What makes you think an arguement is about to take place? This place is all about learning and trying to get better..LOL

[bisonlj]

The argument will be from the team B coach, not from other officials. I would add that argument will likely result in an USC on the B coach as well because he will call you names he should not use.

[MD Longhorn]

C. And not only will you not get an argument, you'll get the coach on that side not even cheering the 100 yard run as he'll have already seen your flag fly high in the endzone... and coaches know what a flag in the endzone usually means.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

The argument will be from the team B coach, not from other officials. I would add that argument will likely result in an USC on the B coach as well because he will call you names he should not use.

Exactly. I think most here are going to agree with C for the answer...the coach may not be so understanding.

A USC is likely forthcoming...except maybe if you're in Texas.

[DrMooreReferee]

Ok,,, hang onto your hats. What if I think the correct answer is B??

NFHS rules....

Take a look at 2-19-2 for the definition of forward handing. Make a note of the fact that it talks about YARD LINES.

Then, go take a look at 2-26-7 and you'll see that YARD LINE actually has a definition too. And their aint no yard lines in the promised land that we call the END ZONE.

So, what I'm basically saying is this....can we have illegal forward handing in the end zone? I'm saying no.

Someone might make reference to rule 7-3-3.... and I still go back to the definition of forward handing.

[Mike L]

Ha...ha-ha-ha. Yeah, right...go with that ruling. "Forward handing is ok in the end zone after a change in possession because there's no yard lines in the end zone."
Couldn't wait to see the review by any observer after that.

[DrMooreReferee]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Ha...ha-ha-ha. Yeah, right...go with that ruling. "Forward handing is ok in the end zone after a change in possession because there's no yard lines in the end zone."
Couldn't wait to see the review by any observer after that.

Hey Mike,,, if you want to disagree with me, thats cool. But at least do it with some sort of rule reference that backs up your claim.

I'll admit that this is a stretch. But this board has been DEAD. I'd like to see some threads started with some interesting plays or ideas. This is what I dreamed up to try and get that started.

But I'm very comfortable with my knowledge of the rules, I can promise you that.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by DrMooreReferee

Then, go take a look at 2-26-7 and you'll see that YARD LINE actually has a definition too. And their aint no yard lines in the promised land that we call the END ZONE.

Nope. Here's 2-26-7:
"ART. 7 . . . A yard line is any line and its vertical plane parallel to the end lines.
The yard lines, marked or unmarked, in the field of play are numbered in yards
from a team’s own goal line to the middle of the field."

The yard lines IN THE FIELD OF PLAY are numbered and (some of them) marked. It doesn't follow that the end zone has no yard lines, just that they will not be marked or numbered.

Indeed, given the first sentence of this rule, I would say that there MUST be yard lines in the end zone, since there are vertical planes in the end zone that are parallel to the end lines.

So forward handing IS defined in the end zone, and still a foul.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by mbyron

The yard lines IN THE FIELD OF PLAY are numbered and (some of them) marked. It doesn't follow that the end zone has no yard lines, just that they will not be marked or numbered.

Indeed, given the first sentence of this rule, I would say that there MUST be yard lines in the end zone, since there are vertical planes in the end zone that are parallel to the end lines.

As opposed to the NCAA definition of yard lines, which makes specific reference to the field of play.

[whitehat]

[QUOTE=mbyron;685318]Nope. Here's 2-26-7:
"ART. 7 . . . A yard line is any line and its vertical plane parallel to the end lines. The yard lines, marked or unmarked, in the field of play are numbered in yards from a team’s own goal line to the middle of the field."

I'm without my rule book as I post but above is a quote of Art 7 from the first page. if it is correct then it also says "from a team's own goal line..." which would exclude the end zone. So the point made in that post is invalid by definition as I see it.

Further (wish I had my rulebook with me), I am not convinced basic spot enforcement applies against B, in B's endzone, when A is responsible for putting the ball there. On the fly as R I am giving B the ball at the 20 then penalizing them 5 so 1st and 10 from the 15...until convinced otherwise.

Anybody have a casebook example one way or the other...always willing to learn but when in doubt fairness gets the nod and 1st and ten at the 15 is the fairest enforcement.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by DrMooreReferee

Ok,,, hang onto your hats. What if I think the correct answer is B??

NFHS rules....

Take a look at 2-19-2 for the definition of forward handing. Make a note of the fact that it talks about YARD LINES.

Then, go take a look at 2-26-7 and you'll see that YARD LINE actually has a definition too. And their aint no yard lines in the promised land that we call the END ZONE.

So, what I'm basically saying is this....can we have illegal forward handing in the end zone? I'm saying no.

Someone might make reference to rule 7-3-3.... and I still go back to the definition of forward handing.

That'd be consistent with rugby, where you can't be offside behind your goal line.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

The argument will be from the team B coach, not from other officials. I would add that argument will likely result in an USC on the B coach as well because he will call you names he should not use.

I pity the R who just sprinted 100 yards, jogged back 100 yards while the BJ just stood there and watched is flag.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by waltjp

I pitty the R who just sprinted 100 yards, jogged back 100 yards while the BJ just stood there and watched is flag.

If the BJ did that, he didn't continue to officiate the play as he was supposed to so after you catch your breath (maybe the following Tuesday), beat that BJ to a pulp for quitting on the play.

[MD Longhorn]

If Offense and Defense didn't change, and A and B didn't change, why would there be any need for both separate designations ... and why would Offense and Defense be omitted from the 4th section of that definition?

It very clearly is telling you that the offense is the team with the ball ... and that this changes when possession changes, while A, B, K, and R do not change regardless of what happens to possession.