PSK Revisited

[jaybird]

Originally Posted by ajmc

It seems reasonably clear that should the ball not be legally kicked, any penalty enforcement for fouls committed during the down would be established by the basic spot as determined by the action that occurs during the down (NF: 10-4-1)

waltjp Quote:

Does this answer when the PSK window opens?

Nope. It just shows how to write an unended sentence with only one comma and no period, while not answering the question.

Typical!

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by jaybird

Nope. It just shows how to write an unended sentence with only one comma and no period, while not answering the question. Typical!

Perhaps you could share your superior knowledge, with us less attuned, and explain just what a "PSK window" is, much less than when it "opens", and what it matters?

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Perhaps you could share your superior knowledge, with us less attuned, and explain just what a "PSK window" is, much less than when it "opens", and what it matters?

window: An interval of time during which an activity can or must take place

Common sense would dictate that a "PSK Window" would be the time period within which a PSK Foul could occur.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by waltjp

window: An interval of time during which an activity can or must take place

Common sense would dictate that a "PSK Window" would be the time period within which a PSK Foul could occur.

I'm still not sure what "a window" has to do with the price of bacon, but NF:2-16-h advises, "PSK- a foul by R (other than illegal substitution or participation) when the foul occurs:
1. During scrimmage kick plays, other than a successful try or field goal.
2. During a scrimmage kick play in which the the ball crosses the the expanded NZ.
3. Beyond the expanded NZ.
4. Before the end of a kick.
5. And K will not be next to put the ball in play.

Which would suggest a PSK foul can happen at any time between the snap, (see NF: 2-1-2 "a ball becomes live when the ball has been legally snapped or free kicked and a down is in progress. NF:2-7-1 defines a "down".) and the end of a kick, provided all the prerequisites of PSK are satisfied, which doesn't require much of any application of common sense to supplement the rule.

(Common sense: good judgment, sound practical judgment derived from experience rather than study. - Encarta dictionary)

[waltjp]

I knew you could read and understand the rules. Be honest - you were just playing with us with that other topic, right? I mean, admit it, nobody can be THAT dense.

[waltjp]

Oh, before I forget.

Did somebody mention 'bacon'?

[mikesears]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Oh, before I forget.

Did somebody mention 'bacon'?

I was doing just fine until THIS post. Now i've drooled on my keyboard.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by waltjp

I knew you could read and understand the rules. Be honest - you were just playing with us with that other topic, right? I mean, admit it, nobody can be THAT dense.

I think you still might be missing the point, "Common sense= good judgment, sound practical judgment derived from experience rather than study", alone.

Let me try a different suggestion, "When an external interpretation clearly conflicts with common sense and logic, it's far better to apply acquired experience to reason the specific objective, rather than blindly follow what cannot be rationally explained, or understood."

Like density, it's largely an individual choice dependent on your own ability to differentiate between conclusions that really don't make any sense and those reasoned to logically fit the circumstances. Of course you have to be ready to stand by your decision, but it helps if you can explain your reasoning.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Which would suggest a PSK foul can happen at any time between the snap, ...and the end of a kick,

That would be the "PSK window". It is not a rulebook term, but only phrase to describe the "interval of time during which an activity [the foul] can or must take place."

It is simply a method of conceptualizing one component of the somewhat complex post scrimmage kick enforcement.

[waltjp]

Alfie, I'll stick with the rules as written, as well as the general consensus on the subject. You, however, are free to employ whatever you need to justify your stance.

[jaybird]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Perhaps you could share your superior knowledge, with us less attuned, and explain just what a "PSK window" is, much less than when it "opens", and what it matters?

Be glad to. Scroll up to post number 17 which answered the question.

Definitions!

Quote:
2-16-2h
Post-scrimmage kick — a foul by R (other than illegal substitution or participation)
when the foul occurs:
1. During scrimmage kick plays, other than a try or successful field goal.
2. During a scrimmage kick play in which the ball crosses the expanded
neutral zone.
3. Beyond the expanded neutral zone.
4. Before the end of a kick.
5. And K will not be next to put the ball in play.
Quote:
2-38
Scrimmage is the action of the two teams during a down which begins with a snap.

[NorCalRef12]

When does the second PSK window open if there is more than one scrimmage kick during a down?

[Sonofanump]

Originally Posted by NorCalRef12

When does the second PSK window open if there is more than one scrimmage kick during a down?

How does this second legal scrimmage kick occurr?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Sonofanump

How does this second legal scrimmage kick occurr?

There is no limit to the number of scrimmage kicks that may be made prior to a change of possession during the down.

[mikesears]

Originally Posted by Sonofanump

How does this second legal scrimmage kick occurr?

Ex 1. 4/10 from the K-20. K1 kicks the ball and it lands at the K-25 and bounces backwards to the K-18 where K1 quickly picks it up and kicks it again.

Ex 2. 4/10 from the K-20. K1 muffs the snap and throws a forward pass to K2 at the K-25 and R1 interferes with K2. K2 catches the pass, tries to circle back. K2 fumbles the ball at the K-22 and K3 picks the ball up at the K-18 and then punts the ball from there.

When did the PSK window open and close for each play?

I think I read this play somewhere, but I don't recall where.