catch and possession

[phansen]

NFHS

Receiver A2 has a ball thrown to him in the end zone. It goes partially through his hands and lodges between his legs in his crotch area. The defender makes contact and the ball is dislodged. I ruled incomplete, however I would note that there was about a second of time (which seemed like an eternity) where I could not tell the actual location of the ball other than to say it wasn't on the ground or in the air and not clearly in the receivers hands.

Can you catch and possess a football between your legs, or must you possess it with your hands? If so this play was probably a TD. Rulebook 2-4 ands 2-34 don't seem to address my situation.

[mbyron]

You've already got 2-4 and 2-34, and these do not require 'possession' or 'holding' to involve the hands. If he had a secure grasp of the ball, I would rule possession, and thus a catch, and thus a TD.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by phansen

NFHS

Receiver A2 has a ball thrown to him in the end zone. It goes partially through his hands and lodges between his legs in his crotch area. The defender makes contact and the ball is dislodged. I ruled incomplete, however I would note that there was about a second of time (which seemed like an eternity) where I could not tell the actual location of the ball other than to say it wasn't on the ground or in the air and not clearly in the receivers hands.

Can you catch and possess a football between your legs, or must you possess it with your hands? If so this play was probably a TD. Rulebook 2-4 ands 2-34 don't seem to address my situation.

Possession could be established with something other than the hands.
That said however, in your example, ball thru the hands and held for about a second between the legs before losing possession? You ruled correctly.

[whitehat]

Under those circumstances I too would probably wave that incomplete.

But, you bring up a good question as to what actually does or could count as "possession?"

[ppaltice]

I would rule incomplete. Incidently, I would also rule incomplete if this happend on the thirty yardline (instead of catch and fumble).

[kdf5]

We try to go by the adage "he ain't that good" meaning he doesn't get something cheap like that. I'd rule incomplete.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by mbyron

You've already got 2-4 and 2-34, and these do not require 'possession' or 'holding' to involve the hands. If he had a secure grasp of the ball, I would rule possession, and thus a catch, and thus a TD.

Does the definition use the word "grasp"? Then it would depend on whether that word implies use of hands.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by kdf5

We try to go by the adage "he ain't that good" meaning he doesn't get something cheap like that. I'd rule incomplete.

What's cheap about catching a ball between your legs?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Does the definition use the word "grasp"? Then it would depend on whether that word implies use of hands.

No, it doesn't, so no, it doesn't.

2-4-1 CATCH: "A catch is the act of establishing player possession of a live ball
which is in flight..."

2-34-1 POSSESSION: "A ball in player possession is a live ball held or controlled by a player
after it has been handed or snapped to him, or after he has caught or recovered it."