Responding to sideline / bleacher chatter

[stegenref]

I'm in my second year at the high school level and working the HL position. One thing I have trouble with is when I see a foul (e.g. a block in the back or facemask), sometimes I'll hesitate for a second or two before I throw my flag...like I've heard that you should do. But where I run into problems is when I'm going through that split-second decision time of whether I saw a foul for sure and if I should throw my flag, someone from the sideline or the stands will yell, "That's a block in the back!!" or "Facemask!". It pisses me off and makes me not want to throw my flag...especially since I don't want it to appear as if I'm throwing my flag in response to their shouts...I'm afraid that will just invite more of the same.

I know I should just call what I see, but what are your thoughts on how you mentally deal with that issue?

[umpirebob71]

Ignore them. Do not ever not throw your flag because they yelled and "pissed you off." That's quick way to a short end. Ignore them, ignore them, ignore them, ignore them. Are you starting to get the idea to ignore them?

[NorCalRef12]

Agreed, you really just need to relax and go through your progression. Watch your key at the snap, follow your responsibilities during the play and if you see a foul committed that needs to be penalized, throw the flag.

If you're only in your second year, everything is still probably happening very quickly. As you gain more experience, the game will slow down and you will barely even hear the coaches and fans.

[stegenref]

Originally Posted by umpirebob71

Do not ever not throw your flag because they yelled and "pissed you off."

I guess what I hated was that I wasn't able to come to my own conclusion before my thought process was interupted. I looked up and saw a kid pushing another kid in the back, but I didn't see the initial action, so I don't know if he was blocking him and the other kid turned around, but they were several yards off to the side of their initial position on the line of scrimmage (out of the neutral zone?), but still ON the LOS and the defender was in pursuit on a sweep. So I was going through all that thought process and now I'll never know if I would've thrown the flag or not if that fan hadn't yelled. In retrospect, I probably would've thrown the flag, but then I think I probably shouldn't have since I didn't see the start of the block.

[kdf5]

Two very simple rules that work for us:

1. If you THINK you saw a foul, then you didn't.
2. You get in more trouble dropping a flag than not.

Originally Posted by stegenref

I guess what I hated was that I wasn't able to come to my own conclusion before my thought process was interupted. I looked up and saw a kid pushing another kid in the back, but I didn't see the initial action, so I don't know if he was blocking him and the other kid turned around, but they were several yards off to the side of their initial position on the line of scrimmage (out of the neutral zone?), but still ON the LOS and the defender was in pursuit on a sweep. So I was going through all that thought process and now I'll never know if I would've thrown the flag or not if that fan hadn't yelled. In retrospect, I probably would've thrown the flag, but then I think I probably shouldn't have since I didn't see the start of the block.

We had the same problem in a freshman game a couple weeks ago, where a kid ended up on the turf needing medical attention (yes, the ambulance had to come on the field) because he was driven into the turf from behind. We were working three-man, and it went away from the linesman so the white hat and I (working U) had the play. By the time white hat and I both saw it, we weren't sure if it was initial action or not so neither of us flagged it. The coach of the kid that got hurt asked if either of us saw a block in the back (their bench was on the other sideline), we said we didn't see the initial action. Coach was ok with it, even though he had a kid laying on the turf. It happens, and not much you can do about it. Like the saying goes, "see what you call, call what you see."

[Bullycon]

Ignore them. Half the time, they don't know the rules anyway.

I'm a second year official myself. I've never held back from throwing a flag because of someone yelling for it. In fact, I've sometimes even found it helpful. I've found in my second year one of my biggest problems on the field is not having the confidence to throw the flag. Sometimes, a coach or fan yelling is enough to trigger me into thinking, "Yes, that was a foul. Yes, I do need to throw the flag." Other times, a flag from another official is a trigger.

Other times, I will see a play and hear a call for a face mask, hold, false start, whatever. I have already decided in my head that it was not a foul. Their calling for a flag isn't going to make me change my mind. It's only when in the back of my head, I know it was a foul, but for some reason my conscious mind hasn't processed that yet.

Finally, there are the times when the coaches, players or fans are calling for fouls and I don't even know which player they are talking about. I know that either a) there was a foul and I completely missed it because I was not in position, not looking where I should have been or was just screen out, or b) there was no foul and they were just whining. These are the ones that really drive me crazy, because I don't know which it is. Am I missing the call, or are they just whiny babies? Probably doesn't help my confidence problem.

Fun story from earlier this year:
A ran a toss sweep to my side, the B sideline. B coaches start yelling, "His mouthpiece is out! His mouthpiece is out!" I scan the players in front of me, looking for someone with their mouthpiece out, but trying to maintain focus on the blocking. B defender comes through and tackles A runner for a two or three yard loss.

I hear a person behind me say, "He's not going to let you call that." That's true. But if I had seen it, I would have called it. The man on box (former official) said to me, "I know you had to have seen that." I said, "No. Who was it?" He said the runner was running this way with the ball in one hand and frantically trying to get his mouthpiece in with his other hand. He succeeded, because by the time he was tackled, he had it in. I spent my whole first year training myself not to look at the runner. Looks like I succeeded.

I wonder, would coaches have more success in getting calls if they called out a number or position? "He's holding!" OK. Who is he? There are 22 guys out here. I'm probably not looking where you are.

[ajmc]

There are really only two answers to questions like, "Didn't you see that", or endless variations thereof. 1 is a simple "No", the second is "Yes", but didn't reach the same conclusion you might have. Most often, neither answer is worth sharing because neither one is what the questioner is looking for, so why bother.

If answering is not worth the bother, why pay any attention to the question?

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by Bullycon

I'm a second year official myself. I've never held back from throwing a flag because of someone yelling for it. In fact, I've sometimes even found it helpful. I've found in my second year one of my biggest problems on the field is not having the confidence to throw the flag. Sometimes, a coach or fan yelling is enough to trigger me into thinking, "Yes, that was a foul. Yes, I do need to throw the flag." Other times, a flag from another official is a trigger.

Be careful here. "Me too" or "Copycat" flags do not look good and are usually transparent and can make the crew look bad. That is, if the first official was wrong, now we are both wrong because of the "me too" flag.

Call what you see and don't let outside factors influence you. If you have a foul, throw the flag after all necessary considerations (point-of-attack, advantage/disadvantage, etc). If another official happens to throw the flag for the same foul, that is great, but you never need to see his flag to throw yours.

If you think there was a foul but are not 110% sure, don't throw the flag. Phantom flags are worse than not throwing the flag at all.

Also, coaches and fans are biased. All contact is DPI if they are on offense or OPI if they are on defense. They are the last people who should ever influence whether or not we throw the flag.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Bullycon

Ignore them. Half the time, they don't know the rules anyway.

I'm a second year official myself. I've never held back from throwing a flag because of someone yelling for it. In fact, I've sometimes even found it helpful. I've found in my second year one of my biggest problems on the field is not having the confidence to throw the flag. Sometimes, a coach or fan yelling is enough to trigger me into thinking, "Yes, that was a foul. Yes, I do need to throw the flag." Other times, a flag from another official is a trigger.

Other times, I will see a play and hear a call for a face mask, hold, false start, whatever. I have already decided in my head that it was not a foul. Their calling for a flag isn't going to make me change my mind. It's only when in the back of my head, I know it was a foul, but for some reason my conscious mind hasn't processed that yet.

Finally, there are the times when the coaches, players or fans are calling for fouls and I don't even know which player they are talking about. I know that either a) there was a foul and I completely missed it because I was not in position, not looking where I should have been or was just screen out, or b) there was no foul and they were just whining. These are the ones that really drive me crazy, because I don't know which it is. Am I missing the call, or are they just whiny babies? Probably doesn't help my confidence problem.

Fun story from earlier this year:
A ran a toss sweep to my side, the B sideline. B coaches start yelling, "His mouthpiece is out! His mouthpiece is out!" I scan the players in front of me, looking for someone with their mouthpiece out, but trying to maintain focus on the blocking. B defender comes through and tackles A runner for a two or three yard loss.

I hear a person behind me say, "He's not going to let you call that." That's true. But if I had seen it, I would have called it. The man on box (former official) said to me, "I know you had to have seen that." I said, "No. Who was it?" He said the runner was running this way with the ball in one hand and frantically trying to get his mouthpiece in with his other hand. He succeeded, because by the time he was tackled, he had it in. I spent my whole first year training myself not to look at the runner. Looks like I succeeded.

I wonder, would coaches have more success in getting calls if they called out a number or position? "He's holding!" OK. Who is he? There are 22 guys out here. I'm probably not looking where you are.

How do you know the mouthguard didn't come out after the snap (which is not a foul)? If you don't se it presnap, let it go and talk to the kid afterwards.

[Bullycon]

Originally Posted by Kirby

Be careful here. "Me too" or "Copycat" flags do not look good and are usually transparent and can make the crew look bad. That is, if the first official was wrong, now we are both wrong because of the "me too" flag.

Call what you see and don't let outside factors influence you. If you have a foul, throw the flag after all necessary considerations (point-of-attack, advantage/disadvantage, etc). If another official happens to throw the flag for the same foul, that is great, but you never need to see his flag to throw yours.

I agree with everything you say. It's not something that happens often. I can only think of three examples this season.

One was a DPI call that I was late on, not dropping my flag until I saw the back judge's. I don't know if anyone noticed other than me. The white hat did not say anything about it. He came up to the two of us and said, "Let me guess. Defense pass interference? Yeah, I could've called that one from the backfield." He's the instructor for new officials, so I think he would've said something had he noticed.

A second was a hold. This one was rather quick. The coach yelled for holding, and the holding was still happening when I threw the flag. So it was probably unnoticed, as well. Mostly, I look back on the play and wonder if the coach hadn't have yelled, would I have threw the flag? I'm 100% sure I should have, but I'm not 100% sure I would have. And that is bothersome.

The third play was another DPI call that I did not flag. The defender made contact, the ball fell incomplete, then I heard the coach yelling for DPI, then I saw the referee's flag come in. In this case, I did not drop my flag. I figured I looked bad enough as it was. I was very happy to see the referee's flag, and frustrated with myself that I had not dropped mine.

If you think there was a foul but are not 110% sure, don't throw the flag. Phantom flags are worse than not throwing the flag at all.

I had a play two Saturdays ago in which I was 95% sure that a face mask had been grabbed. But another player blocked my view and I could not see the player's face mask. By the time the player had moved and my line of sight restored, the face mask had been released. I did not drop the flag. Fortunately, the referee had an unblocked view and threw his flag. Right decision on my part?

Also, coaches and fans are biased. All contact is DPI if they are on offense or OPI if they are on defense. They are the last people who should ever influence whether or not we throw the flag.

I don't mean to imply that I let anyone sway me when there is a question of whether it was a foul. I don't throw the flag unless I believe it was a foul. It's just there seems to be a disconnect sometimes between seeing the foul and flagging the foul. It's something I'm working on.

[HLin NC]

Speaking as one who was warned early on about rabbit ears, if you stay with it long enough, you will eventually find the "zone" and tune all that out.

It helps to be married

[whitehat]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

How do you know the mouthguard didn't come out after the snap (which is not a foul)? If you don't se it presnap, let it go and talk to the kid afterwards.

Good point Rich.
I'd be real hesitant to throw that flag anyway...This is where some preventive officiating and talking to kids is valuable.

[Bullycon]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

How do you know the mouthguard didn't come out after the snap (which is not a foul)? If you don't se it presnap, let it go and talk to the kid afterwards.

Excellent point, RichMSN. I had not considered that. I do think it would have been highly unlikely. All he had done was take the toss from the QB and run to the outside.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Bullycon

Excellent point, RichMSN. I had not considered that. I do think it would have been highly unlikely. All he had done was take the toss from the QB and run to the outside.

But you don't *know*. So you don't throw a flag.