Responding to sideline / bleacher chatter

[Bullycon]

Ignore them. Half the time, they don't know the rules anyway.

I'm a second year official myself. I've never held back from throwing a flag because of someone yelling for it. In fact, I've sometimes even found it helpful. I've found in my second year one of my biggest problems on the field is not having the confidence to throw the flag. Sometimes, a coach or fan yelling is enough to trigger me into thinking, "Yes, that was a foul. Yes, I do need to throw the flag." Other times, a flag from another official is a trigger.

Other times, I will see a play and hear a call for a face mask, hold, false start, whatever. I have already decided in my head that it was not a foul. Their calling for a flag isn't going to make me change my mind. It's only when in the back of my head, I know it was a foul, but for some reason my conscious mind hasn't processed that yet.

Finally, there are the times when the coaches, players or fans are calling for fouls and I don't even know which player they are talking about. I know that either a) there was a foul and I completely missed it because I was not in position, not looking where I should have been or was just screen out, or b) there was no foul and they were just whining. These are the ones that really drive me crazy, because I don't know which it is. Am I missing the call, or are they just whiny babies? Probably doesn't help my confidence problem.

Fun story from earlier this year:
A ran a toss sweep to my side, the B sideline. B coaches start yelling, "His mouthpiece is out! His mouthpiece is out!" I scan the players in front of me, looking for someone with their mouthpiece out, but trying to maintain focus on the blocking. B defender comes through and tackles A runner for a two or three yard loss.

I hear a person behind me say, "He's not going to let you call that." That's true. But if I had seen it, I would have called it. The man on box (former official) said to me, "I know you had to have seen that." I said, "No. Who was it?" He said the runner was running this way with the ball in one hand and frantically trying to get his mouthpiece in with his other hand. He succeeded, because by the time he was tackled, he had it in. I spent my whole first year training myself not to look at the runner. Looks like I succeeded.

I wonder, would coaches have more success in getting calls if they called out a number or position? "He's holding!" OK. Who is he? There are 22 guys out here. I'm probably not looking where you are.

[ajmc]

There are really only two answers to questions like, "Didn't you see that", or endless variations thereof. 1 is a simple "No", the second is "Yes", but didn't reach the same conclusion you might have. Most often, neither answer is worth sharing because neither one is what the questioner is looking for, so why bother.

If answering is not worth the bother, why pay any attention to the question?

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by Bullycon

I'm a second year official myself. I've never held back from throwing a flag because of someone yelling for it. In fact, I've sometimes even found it helpful. I've found in my second year one of my biggest problems on the field is not having the confidence to throw the flag. Sometimes, a coach or fan yelling is enough to trigger me into thinking, "Yes, that was a foul. Yes, I do need to throw the flag." Other times, a flag from another official is a trigger.

Be careful here. "Me too" or "Copycat" flags do not look good and are usually transparent and can make the crew look bad. That is, if the first official was wrong, now we are both wrong because of the "me too" flag.

Call what you see and don't let outside factors influence you. If you have a foul, throw the flag after all necessary considerations (point-of-attack, advantage/disadvantage, etc). If another official happens to throw the flag for the same foul, that is great, but you never need to see his flag to throw yours.

If you think there was a foul but are not 110% sure, don't throw the flag. Phantom flags are worse than not throwing the flag at all.

Also, coaches and fans are biased. All contact is DPI if they are on offense or OPI if they are on defense. They are the last people who should ever influence whether or not we throw the flag.

[Bullycon]

Originally Posted by Kirby

Be careful here. "Me too" or "Copycat" flags do not look good and are usually transparent and can make the crew look bad. That is, if the first official was wrong, now we are both wrong because of the "me too" flag.

Call what you see and don't let outside factors influence you. If you have a foul, throw the flag after all necessary considerations (point-of-attack, advantage/disadvantage, etc). If another official happens to throw the flag for the same foul, that is great, but you never need to see his flag to throw yours.

I agree with everything you say. It's not something that happens often. I can only think of three examples this season.

One was a DPI call that I was late on, not dropping my flag until I saw the back judge's. I don't know if anyone noticed other than me. The white hat did not say anything about it. He came up to the two of us and said, "Let me guess. Defense pass interference? Yeah, I could've called that one from the backfield." He's the instructor for new officials, so I think he would've said something had he noticed.

A second was a hold. This one was rather quick. The coach yelled for holding, and the holding was still happening when I threw the flag. So it was probably unnoticed, as well. Mostly, I look back on the play and wonder if the coach hadn't have yelled, would I have threw the flag? I'm 100% sure I should have, but I'm not 100% sure I would have. And that is bothersome.

The third play was another DPI call that I did not flag. The defender made contact, the ball fell incomplete, then I heard the coach yelling for DPI, then I saw the referee's flag come in. In this case, I did not drop my flag. I figured I looked bad enough as it was. I was very happy to see the referee's flag, and frustrated with myself that I had not dropped mine.

If you think there was a foul but are not 110% sure, don't throw the flag. Phantom flags are worse than not throwing the flag at all.

I had a play two Saturdays ago in which I was 95% sure that a face mask had been grabbed. But another player blocked my view and I could not see the player's face mask. By the time the player had moved and my line of sight restored, the face mask had been released. I did not drop the flag. Fortunately, the referee had an unblocked view and threw his flag. Right decision on my part?

Also, coaches and fans are biased. All contact is DPI if they are on offense or OPI if they are on defense. They are the last people who should ever influence whether or not we throw the flag.

I don't mean to imply that I let anyone sway me when there is a question of whether it was a foul. I don't throw the flag unless I believe it was a foul. It's just there seems to be a disconnect sometimes between seeing the foul and flagging the foul. It's something I'm working on.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Bullycon

Ignore them. Half the time, they don't know the rules anyway.

I'm a second year official myself. I've never held back from throwing a flag because of someone yelling for it. In fact, I've sometimes even found it helpful. I've found in my second year one of my biggest problems on the field is not having the confidence to throw the flag. Sometimes, a coach or fan yelling is enough to trigger me into thinking, "Yes, that was a foul. Yes, I do need to throw the flag." Other times, a flag from another official is a trigger.

Other times, I will see a play and hear a call for a face mask, hold, false start, whatever. I have already decided in my head that it was not a foul. Their calling for a flag isn't going to make me change my mind. It's only when in the back of my head, I know it was a foul, but for some reason my conscious mind hasn't processed that yet.

Finally, there are the times when the coaches, players or fans are calling for fouls and I don't even know which player they are talking about. I know that either a) there was a foul and I completely missed it because I was not in position, not looking where I should have been or was just screen out, or b) there was no foul and they were just whining. These are the ones that really drive me crazy, because I don't know which it is. Am I missing the call, or are they just whiny babies? Probably doesn't help my confidence problem.

Fun story from earlier this year:
A ran a toss sweep to my side, the B sideline. B coaches start yelling, "His mouthpiece is out! His mouthpiece is out!" I scan the players in front of me, looking for someone with their mouthpiece out, but trying to maintain focus on the blocking. B defender comes through and tackles A runner for a two or three yard loss.

I hear a person behind me say, "He's not going to let you call that." That's true. But if I had seen it, I would have called it. The man on box (former official) said to me, "I know you had to have seen that." I said, "No. Who was it?" He said the runner was running this way with the ball in one hand and frantically trying to get his mouthpiece in with his other hand. He succeeded, because by the time he was tackled, he had it in. I spent my whole first year training myself not to look at the runner. Looks like I succeeded.

I wonder, would coaches have more success in getting calls if they called out a number or position? "He's holding!" OK. Who is he? There are 22 guys out here. I'm probably not looking where you are.

How do you know the mouthguard didn't come out after the snap (which is not a foul)? If you don't se it presnap, let it go and talk to the kid afterwards.

[HLin NC]

Speaking as one who was warned early on about rabbit ears, if you stay with it long enough, you will eventually find the "zone" and tune all that out.

It helps to be married

[whitehat]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

How do you know the mouthguard didn't come out after the snap (which is not a foul)? If you don't se it presnap, let it go and talk to the kid afterwards.

Good point Rich.
I'd be real hesitant to throw that flag anyway...This is where some preventive officiating and talking to kids is valuable.

[Bullycon]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

How do you know the mouthguard didn't come out after the snap (which is not a foul)? If you don't se it presnap, let it go and talk to the kid afterwards.

Excellent point, RichMSN. I had not considered that. I do think it would have been highly unlikely. All he had done was take the toss from the QB and run to the outside.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Bullycon

Excellent point, RichMSN. I had not considered that. I do think it would have been highly unlikely. All he had done was take the toss from the QB and run to the outside.

But you don't *know*. So you don't throw a flag.

[Canned Heat]

If you never learn to tune out crowd or sideline comments or complaints, you'll have a short career in officiating. I had a hard time the first year or two and find myself perplexed by some of the comments that come out of the crowd or a coach's mouth. I do a good bit of AAYFL youth ball every Saturday in addition to our weekly assignments and I don't think I have to tell you how many parents think they know the rules better than our whole crew. If I had a $5 spot for every time I've heard some parent ot coach scream "HORSECOLLAR" this year, I could take off until Christmas.

[chymechowder]

Originally Posted by Canned Heat

If I had a $5 spot for every time I've heard some parent ot coach scream "HORSECOLLAR" this year, I could take off until Christmas.

haha, awesome.

I hear it all the time, too. Kid gets pulled down by his shirt tail and Team A sideline is screaming for a horsecollar tackle penalty.

[Bullycon]

Originally Posted by Canned Heat

If I had a $5 spot for every time I've heard some parent ot coach scream "HORSECOLLAR" this year, I could take off until Christmas.

Amazingly, I had more complaints last year than this year. I've had two plays where the runner was grabbed by the back collar, but not pulled down. Not a word. The one time a coach called for it, the defender clearly had him by the back of the jersey, not the collar of the jersey.

[Canned Heat]

Originally Posted by Bullycon

Amazingly, I had more complaints last year than this year. I've had two plays where the runner was grabbed by the back collar, but not pulled down. Not a word. The one time a coach called for it, the defender clearly had him by the back of the jersey, not the collar of the jersey.

I had a boatload of those the first year it was implemented in the NFL, but had yet to be instilled in the NCAA or NFHS. One time a guy in the crowd (youth game, no less) was so extremely adamant, the coaches of the home team asked ME to settle him down. I reluctantly called time out and approached the sideline and stated to the gentleman that the horsecollar was a rule only in the NFL. I then mentioned that if he did not restrain himself any further, he would be removed from the venue. Got some ovation from the stands on the way back out to the field. This year, I've had at least 5 instances of coaches yelling for the HC and they weren't anything near an HC. All going down forward and one getting pulled forward from the name placket over onto his head. We did have a textbook one 2 weeks ago on a breakaway interception.

[Durham]

I have a very serious question to a very big problem i have with the advice "Ignore them!" Why do we as football officials choose to ignore them and just live with it? Why don't we enforce the code of ethics/sportsmanship?

I began my officiating as a baseball umpire and have worked every level of baseball and there we do not just ignore. We don't go looking for it, but when someone steps out of line, we respectfully and professionally are asked to help show them back into the light.

So why is it different in football? I am in my 2nd year of football and spending a lot of time at the white hat and back judge positions and one of the reasons that I am doing well is my learned ability to effectivly communicate with coaches and players.

There is nothing wrong with turning around durring dead ball time and telling the coach that each of you has a role, you''l do your best to do yours and it would be best that he stick to his. They usually get the hint and tactics like this have usually worked and been understood after a side-line warning, a 5, and or a 15. I am not saying just throw them, but if after speaking with them, it isn't hard to find a toe in the box.

So, vet's please explain to me.

Thanks.

[umpirebob71]

I was referring to ignoring the fans in the stands. As has been said on here, nothing good can come from arguing with them. As for a coach, if he is getting out of line, I'll let him know.