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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 29, 2009, 07:48pm
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Simultaneous Possession?

Simultaneous possession?

YouTube - This is Football - Play of the Year

What do you think?
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Old Wed Jul 29, 2009, 08:05pm
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Simultaneous catch absolutely. The ball is dead once both players come to the ground.
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Old Thu Jul 30, 2009, 08:27am
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From what I can see, looks to be like the defenders foot hits the ground first. If so, we have an interception. You really have to slow it down and look close but looks like the offensive player gets swing away.

Either way, tough call.

That being said, I will give the HL his due as he gave the call immediately.
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Old Thu Jul 30, 2009, 08:36am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FBullock View Post
From what I can see, looks to be like the defenders foot hits the ground first. If so, we have an interception. You really have to slow it down and look close but looks like the offensive player gets swing away.
Doesn't matter who touches the ground first. This is simultaneous possession of a forward pass, which by rule goes to the passing team. Touchdown.

Good call!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule 7-5-4
If a forward pass is caught simultaneously
by two opponents, the ball becomes dead and belongs to the passing
team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Case 7.5.4
COMMENT: In order for there to be a simultaneous catch,
opposing players must have simultaneous joint possession, and both must be in
contact with the ground inbounds. The players’ contact with the ground does not
have to be exactly simultaneous
.
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Old Thu Jul 30, 2009, 09:05am
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I agree, simultaneous catch. Both come to the ground inbounds with possession of the ball.
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Old Thu Jul 30, 2009, 09:20am
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Under NFHS rules - Absolutely a simultaneous catch, and absolutely a TD. Great call by the officials.
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Old Thu Jul 30, 2009, 11:11am
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Per NCAA AR 7-3-6 III:

Two opposing players receive a ball while both are off the ground,
and one player returns to the ground inbounds before the other.
RULING: No simultaneous catch. The legal forward pass is
completed or intercepted by the player who first returned to the
ground (Rule 2-2-8).
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Old Thu Jul 30, 2009, 12:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FBullock View Post
Per NCAA AR 7-3-6 III:

Two opposing players receive a ball while both are off the ground,
and one player returns to the ground inbounds before the other.
RULING: No simultaneous catch. The legal forward pass is
completed or intercepted by the player who first returned to the
ground (Rule 2-2-8).
That's nice. Relevance?
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Old Thu Jul 30, 2009, 12:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
That's nice. Relevance?
Under NCAA ruling, the first player to touch the ground, gets credit with the completion.

Relevance - Just statement of fact. You have to understand the definitions of the rules you are working under.
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Old Thu Jul 30, 2009, 02:16pm
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Blackhawk HS in PA so not NCAA rules.
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Old Thu Jul 30, 2009, 02:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossman72 View Post
What do you think?
I think - good call.
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Old Thu Jul 30, 2009, 03:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FBullock View Post
Under NCAA ruling, the first player to touch the ground, gets credit with the completion.

Relevance - Just statement of fact. You have to understand the definitions of the rules you are working under.
Statements of fact are not all relevant.

The call in the video was the correct one. Do you yell "He was out of the pocket!" at officials who flag intentional grounding in NF games?
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Old Thu Jul 30, 2009, 03:43pm
KWH KWH is offline
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Post FBullock is incorrect

Quote:
Originally Posted by FBullock View Post
From what I can see, looks to be like the defenders foot hits the ground first. If so, we have an interception. You really have to slow it down and look close but looks like the offensive player gets swing away.

Either way, tough call.

That being said, I will give the HL his due as he gave the call immediately.
Um, wait a minute, in my book the HL did a horrible job as he left the LOS prior to the ball crossing the LOS.
The Side Judge actually made the immediate (and correct) touchdown call on the simultanious catch!
This play was correctly ruled a touchdown and was a textbook example of NFHS Rules 2-4-3 and 7-5-4.

I think perhaps you should take another look at both the play and the NFHS Rules Book!
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Old Fri Jul 31, 2009, 06:46am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KWH View Post
Um, wait a minute, in my book the HL did a horrible job as he left the LOS prior to the ball crossing the LOS.
The Side Judge actually made the immediate (and correct) touchdown call on the simultanious catch!
This play was correctly ruled a touchdown and was a textbook example of NFHS Rules 2-4-3 and 7-5-4.

I think perhaps you should take another look at both the play and the NFHS Rules Book!
KWH
Using CCA mechanics for a 6 or 7 man crew the HL, when he reads pass is to drift down field about 5 yards to watch action behind the U. The LJ holds the LOS. On this play the H might have been a little too far down field. Maybe he observed action that caused him to move farther down field.

As far as the outcome of the play, NFHS rules TD, NCAA rules FBullock is correct touchback.
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Old Fri Jul 31, 2009, 11:39am
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Post Thanks but no thanks...

Dale-

I am aware of the NCAA ruling for this play and I am also aware of the H mechanics in CCA manual for this play. I am also aware of the NFL/NAFL Ruling, the AREANA2 ruling and I am pretty sure (but not positive) on the CFL ruling.

However, therein lies the problem!

What seems to be missing is this was a NFHS high school game played in Pennsylvania under NFHS Rules using PIAA 6-man mechaincs. NFHS ruling on a simultanious catch would apply as would PIAA 6-Man mechanics. PIAA 6-Man mechanics has the HL staying on the LOS and the LJ drifting downfield. (See attached link.)

http://www.piaa.org/assets/web/docum...nic_manual.pdf


As such, my comments are, and were, applicable to this video.
Comments regarding CCA Mechanics, NCAA rules, and/or NFL kicking balls would not be applicable! Making comments or evaluations on anything other than the particular rules or mechanics the crew in the video are utilizing, would be incorrect, false, foolhardy and a bit askew.

But thank you Dale, for providing your perception of what FBullock was thinking.
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