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-   -   Simultaneous Possession? (https://forum.officiating.com/football/54178-simultaneous-possession.html)

bossman72 Wed Jul 29, 2009 07:48pm

Simultaneous Possession?
 
Simultaneous possession?

YouTube - This is Football - Play of the Year

What do you think?

Ed Hickland Wed Jul 29, 2009 08:05pm

Simultaneous catch absolutely. The ball is dead once both players come to the ground.

FBullock Thu Jul 30, 2009 08:27am

From what I can see, looks to be like the defenders foot hits the ground first. If so, we have an interception. You really have to slow it down and look close but looks like the offensive player gets swing away.

Either way, tough call.

That being said, I will give the HL his due as he gave the call immediately.

mbyron Thu Jul 30, 2009 08:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBullock (Post 617899)
From what I can see, looks to be like the defenders foot hits the ground first. If so, we have an interception. You really have to slow it down and look close but looks like the offensive player gets swing away.

Doesn't matter who touches the ground first. This is simultaneous possession of a forward pass, which by rule goes to the passing team. Touchdown.

Good call!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rule 7-5-4
If a forward pass is caught simultaneously
by two opponents, the ball becomes dead and belongs to the passing
team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Case 7.5.4
COMMENT: In order for there to be a simultaneous catch,
opposing players must have simultaneous joint possession, and both must be in
contact with the ground inbounds. The players’ contact with the ground does not
have to be exactly simultaneous
.


ppaltice Thu Jul 30, 2009 09:05am

I agree, simultaneous catch. Both come to the ground inbounds with possession of the ball.

VALJ Thu Jul 30, 2009 09:20am

Under NFHS rules - Absolutely a simultaneous catch, and absolutely a TD. Great call by the officials.

FBullock Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:11am

Per NCAA AR 7-3-6 III:

Two opposing players receive a ball while both are off the ground,
and one player returns to the ground inbounds before the other.
RULING: No simultaneous catch. The legal forward pass is
completed or intercepted by the player who first returned to the
ground (Rule 2-2-8).

mbyron Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBullock (Post 617960)
Per NCAA AR 7-3-6 III:

Two opposing players receive a ball while both are off the ground,
and one player returns to the ground inbounds before the other.
RULING: No simultaneous catch. The legal forward pass is
completed or intercepted by the player who first returned to the
ground (Rule 2-2-8).

That's nice. Relevance?

FBullock Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 618018)
That's nice. Relevance?

Under NCAA ruling, the first player to touch the ground, gets credit with the completion.

Relevance - Just statement of fact. You have to understand the definitions of the rules you are working under.

bigjohn Thu Jul 30, 2009 02:16pm

Blackhawk HS in PA so not NCAA rules.

InsideTheStripe Thu Jul 30, 2009 02:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossman72 (Post 617820)
What do you think?

I think - good call.

mbyron Thu Jul 30, 2009 03:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBullock (Post 618032)
Under NCAA ruling, the first player to touch the ground, gets credit with the completion.

Relevance - Just statement of fact. You have to understand the definitions of the rules you are working under.

Statements of fact are not all relevant.

The call in the video was the correct one. Do you yell "He was out of the pocket!" at officials who flag intentional grounding in NF games?

KWH Thu Jul 30, 2009 03:43pm

FBullock is incorrect
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FBullock (Post 617899)
From what I can see, looks to be like the defenders foot hits the ground first. If so, we have an interception. You really have to slow it down and look close but looks like the offensive player gets swing away.

Either way, tough call.

That being said, I will give the HL his due as he gave the call immediately.

Um, wait a minute, in my book the HL did a horrible job as he left the LOS prior to the ball crossing the LOS.
The Side Judge actually made the immediate (and correct) touchdown call on the simultanious catch!
This play was correctly ruled a touchdown and was a textbook example of NFHS Rules 2-4-3 and 7-5-4.

I think perhaps you should take another look at both the play and the NFHS Rules Book!

Dale Smith Fri Jul 31, 2009 06:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWH (Post 618133)
Um, wait a minute, in my book the HL did a horrible job as he left the LOS prior to the ball crossing the LOS.
The Side Judge actually made the immediate (and correct) touchdown call on the simultanious catch!
This play was correctly ruled a touchdown and was a textbook example of NFHS Rules 2-4-3 and 7-5-4.

I think perhaps you should take another look at both the play and the NFHS Rules Book!

KWH
Using CCA mechanics for a 6 or 7 man crew the HL, when he reads pass is to drift down field about 5 yards to watch action behind the U. The LJ holds the LOS. On this play the H might have been a little too far down field. Maybe he observed action that caused him to move farther down field.

As far as the outcome of the play, NFHS rules TD, NCAA rules FBullock is correct touchback.

KWH Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:39am

Thanks but no thanks...
 
Dale-

I am aware of the NCAA ruling for this play and I am also aware of the H mechanics in CCA manual for this play. I am also aware of the NFL/NAFL Ruling, the AREANA2 ruling and I am pretty sure (but not positive) on the CFL ruling.

However, therein lies the problem!

What seems to be missing is this was a NFHS high school game played in Pennsylvania under NFHS Rules using PIAA 6-man mechaincs. NFHS ruling on a simultanious catch would apply as would PIAA 6-Man mechanics. PIAA 6-Man mechanics has the HL staying on the LOS and the LJ drifting downfield. (See attached link.)

http://www.piaa.org/assets/web/docum...nic_manual.pdf


As such, my comments are, and were, applicable to this video.
Comments regarding CCA Mechanics, NCAA rules, and/or NFL kicking balls would not be applicable! Making comments or evaluations on anything other than the particular rules or mechanics the crew in the video are utilizing, would be incorrect, false, foolhardy and a bit askew.

But thank you Dale, for providing your perception of what FBullock was thinking.


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