Simultaneous Possession?

[Dale Smith]

Originally Posted by KWH

Um, wait a minute, in my book the HL did a horrible job as he left the LOS prior to the ball crossing the LOS.
The Side Judge actually made the immediate (and correct) touchdown call on the simultanious catch!
This play was correctly ruled a touchdown and was a textbook example of NFHS Rules 2-4-3 and 7-5-4.

I think perhaps you should take another look at both the play and the NFHS Rules Book!

KWH
Using CCA mechanics for a 6 or 7 man crew the HL, when he reads pass is to drift down field about 5 yards to watch action behind the U. The LJ holds the LOS. On this play the H might have been a little too far down field. Maybe he observed action that caused him to move farther down field.

As far as the outcome of the play, NFHS rules TD, NCAA rules FBullock is correct touchback.

[KWH]

Dale-

I am aware of the NCAA ruling for this play and I am also aware of the H mechanics in CCA manual for this play. I am also aware of the NFL/NAFL Ruling, the AREANA2 ruling and I am pretty sure (but not positive) on the CFL ruling.

However, therein lies the problem!

What seems to be missing is this was a NFHS high school game played in Pennsylvania under NFHS Rules using PIAA 6-man mechaincs. NFHS ruling on a simultanious catch would apply as would PIAA 6-Man mechanics. PIAA 6-Man mechanics has the HL staying on the LOS and the LJ drifting downfield. (See attached link.)

http://www.piaa.org/assets/web/docum...nic_manual.pdf


As such, my comments are, and were, applicable to this video.
Comments regarding CCA Mechanics, NCAA rules, and/or NFL kicking balls would not be applicable! Making comments or evaluations on anything other than the particular rules or mechanics the crew in the video are utilizing, would be incorrect, false, foolhardy and a bit askew.

But thank you Dale, for providing your perception of what FBullock was thinking.

[Dale Smith]

Originally Posted by KWH

Dale-

I am aware of the NCAA ruling for this play and I am also aware of the H mechanics in CCA manual for this play. I am also aware of the NFL/NAFL Ruling, the AREANA2 ruling and I am pretty sure (but not positive) on the CFL ruling.

However, therein lies the problem!

What seems to be missing is this was a NFHS high school game played in Pennsylvania under NFHS Rules using PIAA 6-man mechaincs. NFHS ruling on a simultanious catch would apply as would PIAA 6-Man mechanics. PIAA 6-Man mechanics has the HL staying on the LOS and the LJ drifting downfield. (See attached link.)

http://www.piaa.org/assets/web/docum...nic_manual.pdf


As such, my comments are, and were, applicable to this video.
Comments regarding CCA Mechanics, NCAA rules, and/or NFL kicking balls would not be applicable! Making comments or evaluations on anything other than the particular rules or mechanics the crew in the video are utilizing, would be incorrect, false, foolhardy and a bit askew.

But thank you Dale, for providing your perception of what FBullock was thinking.

Where I am from, for NFHS game played using 6 or 7 man mechanics we use the CCA manual. Not being from Pa. I was not aware that they had their own 6 man mechanics. If that is what the Pa. book says and you are working in Pa. then that is what you do. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[ref1986]

Originally Posted by KWH

What seems to be missing is this was a NFHS high school game played in Pennsylvania under NFHS Rules using PIAA 6-man mechaincs. NFHS ruling on a simultanious catch would apply as would PIAA 6-Man mechanics. PIAA 6-Man mechanics has the HL staying on the LOS and the LJ drifting downfield. (See attached link.)

http://www.piaa.org/assets/web/docum...nic_manual.pdf

KW

One minor point. This was a WPIAL crew, so they were almost certainly using CCA mechanics. The PIAA issued their manual last year. But the WPIAL, as well as many others of us in western PA who had been using CCA, stuck with CCA, and for good reason: the PIAA mechanics are based on 25 year old PAC-10 mechanics and in some respects just plain bad. It led to a big fight between the WPIAL and the PIAA (or another big fight, since they have many). It may have been why no WPIAL crew got a state championship game last year. The PIAA reissued their mechanics again this year with a stern warning to use them. Many of us think that's just the PIAA's way of sticking it to the WPIAL, especially since WPIAL opposition effectively killed a PIAA plan to go to six football classifications from four.

One way I think you can tell they're using CCA is how long it takes the BJ to come into view. In CCA, when the ball is thrown he's at the goal line pylon opposite the SJ. That appears to be where he comes from. If they had been using PIAA, he would have been inside the hash and probably near the end line. (And if he's inside the hash and near the end line, who's covering the LJ's goal line pylon, you ask? You guessed it, the LJ, from 10 yards away, just like 5-man. I said they're bad!).

[KWH]

ref1986-

I will stay out of PA Politics....

[Texas Aggie]

Blackhawk HS in PA so not NCAA rules.

Its customary around here to include rule references under alternative codes than what the actual game was played under. The play itself could have happened anywhere -- pee wee through NFL. Besides, a lot of guys here work both Fed and NCAA. There was never an assertion that the call was missed because of the NCAA ruling, but rather a reference to it.

[Texas Aggie]

Making comments or evaluations on anything other than the particular rules or mechanics the crew in the video are utilizing, would be incorrect, false, foolhardy and a bit askew.

Total nonsense. If you want to start your own forum and have such a rule, go for it, but these are always fair game unless the discussion topic makes other rule codes irrelevant (e.g. free kick (or whatever its called) after fair catch rules, mechanics, and case plays; no need to discuss NCAA rule since there isn't one).

There was no reference in the original post or the video as to where this game was. 2 HS states play NCAA rules. Are we supposed to just know where the game is by the limited information involved? There's a Black Hawk HS in Wisconsin. Probably another one somewhere else.