7 players on the LOS

[Texas Aggie]

The mechanic of having the LJ fully count ANY players -- offense or defense -- is screwed up because of his inability to often see players who are covered up.

What we do on my crew is that I (R) and the U have basically 2 signals with an outstretched hand that my wings know to look for. Closed fist = 11 players. Wings just verify no more than 4 in the backfield, which should be easy enough. Open fist = 10 or fewer players (and we leave this signal open until the snap), so no more than 3 in the backfield, and we are good. 4 = both wings flag. If there are more than 11, we have a foul. I tell my BJ to be responsible for the defense.

If the wings look at me or the umpire and don't see a signal, unless its real early in huddle/play, we have 11. I'll hold the 10 or fewer signal until the snap. I think after you've worked a while, its pretty easy to tell whether there are more than 11 on a glance, and you just verify it. Incidentally, when I count, its "4-4-3" or sometimes the formation will dictate that I count "3-3-3-2." Its important that everyone learn to count in multiples, as counting from 1 to 11 is very time consuming, even for the fastest guy. Group counting takes literally 2 seconds.

I work wing on my crew, and both wings have always counted, and signaled to each other, with a hand on cheek meaning 2 (or 1 in 8-man) on our side, touch the bill of the cap for 3 (or 2 in 8-man), and tap our head (like shot clock violation in basketball) for 4 (or 3 in 8-man). If I touch my cheek and see my other wing tapping his head, all is good. If we both touch the bill of our caps, all is good. We also signal if our last is off the line at the same time.

As HL, I always have the flag if the math doesn't add up. If I throw the flag, and if our U has information otherwise, we'll wave it off. It's worked great, last fall, I think I may have flagged this about a dozen times (mind you, we get some screwy lines in 8-man ball too), and only waved off one because we had a sub on the other wing who screwed me up.

[KWH]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

The mechanic of having the LJ fully count ANY players -- offense or defense -- is screwed up because of his inability to often see players who are covered up.

What we do on my crew is that I (R) and the U have basically 2 signals with an outstretched hand that my wings know to look for. Closed fist = 11 players. Wings just verify no more than 4 in the backfield, which should be easy enough. Open fist = 10 or fewer players (and we leave this signal open until the snap), so no more than 3 in the backfield, and we are good. 4 = both wings flag. If there are more than 11, we have a foul. I tell my BJ to be responsible for the defense.

If the wings look at me or the umpire and don't see a signal, unless its real early in huddle/play, we have 11. I'll hold the 10 or fewer signal until the snap. I think after you've worked a while, its pretty easy to tell whether there are more than 11 on a glance, and you just verify it. Incidentally, when I count, its "4-4-3" or sometimes the formation will dictate that I count "3-3-3-2." Its important that everyone learn to count in multiples, as counting from 1 to 11 is very time consuming, even for the fastest guy. Group counting takes literally 2 seconds.

What is an "Open Fist"? Open Hand maybe?
Isn't an "open fist" easily confused with "Military Intelligence?"

[ppaltice]

Originally Posted by KWH

What is an "Open Fist"? Open Hand maybe?
Isn't an "open fist" easily confused with "Military Intelligence?"

He is an Aggie, so give him a little leeway.

When I am refereeing, I also give an open hand for 10 man and a fist for 11. I maintain this signal while my U just holds up until we acknowledge each other.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ppaltice

He is an Aggie, so give him a little leeway.

When I am refereeing, I also give an open hand for 10 man and a fist for 11. I maintain this signal while my U just holds up until we acknowledge each other.

We thumb down 10 or fewer. 12 gets a recount and a flag.