7 players on the LOS

[KWH]

I don't know what you mean by the 4 and 2 method.

However,

Our method is the Referee signals (bent arm with a fist) indicating he has 11 players, the two wings would then have a flag only if their are more than 4 in the backfield.
Or, if the Referee signals (10 fingers at waist level) indicating he has 10 players, the two wings would then have a flag only if their are more than 3 in the backfield.

[bisonlj]

Let me preface this by saying I was taught to count the backfield once I have a signal that we have 11 players. It's what I got used to and also makes the most sense to me.

First, you have the QB. Then it's just a quick count of guys in the backfield to make sure you don't have more than 3. I like this method because they are usually more in the open while it's hard for me to sometimes tell if I have 2 or 3 guys on my side of the line because a big tackle can hide a guard and sometimes you just see a mass of bodies at this point.

Besides, I can get to 4 faster than 7.

I'm sure it can be done by counting 7 on the line rather than 4 in the backfield but I'm used to what I've been taught. Every good official I've talked to at all levels says they count the backfield as well. From what I understand counting line (and signalling balance, unbalanced, etc.) are very old mechanics that some people haven't changed. Not sure if that's true but that's what I've been taught.

[Mike L]

We are pretty much like KWH. In addition, the wings will "punch back" if the widest player toward him is in the back field. And one finger up if there is only one running back.

Does it mean I have to get the count/signal early for them (like as the huddle breaks)? Yep.
Does it mean they may have to quickly decide at times if the formation is legal? Yep.
Is that why we make the big bucks? Yep.

Personally, I'd like to go to the new NCAA version of you only care if they have more than 4 in the backfield. Because, does A really gain an advantage by having 4 backs with only 10 guys on the field?

[ChickenOfNC]

Originally Posted by KWH

I don't know what you mean by the 4 and 2 method.

However,

Our method is the Referee signals (bent arm with a fist) indicating he has 11 players, the two wings would then have a flag only if their are more than 4 in the backfield.
Or, if the Referee signals (10 fingers at waist level) indicating he has 10 players, the two wings would then have a flag only if their are more than 3 in the backfield.

4 and 2 = Not counting the center, if I only have two players on the LOS on my side of the center I will flash "2" above my head to the opposite wing. He should flash "4" back to me. If not, we should have flags. If the line is balanced with 3 on each side of the snapper, there is no signal.

[Ed Hickland]

I spent many years as an LJ being frustrated with trying to count players on the LOS. Sometimes you miss a player because the guy next to him is bigger and/or taller or players are positioned such that seeing everyone is difficult. First thing I did when I became an R was tell the wings they did not have to count players on the LOS.

Reason is U has to count five players numbered 50-79, so, why not complete the 11 count. The R is in the offensive backfield and can easily count 11. So, we depend on the R & U having the 11 count. The wings indicate whether the last player is on or off. The R counts players in the backfield depending on the wings to indicate whether the last an is on or off.

[KWH]

Originally Posted by ChickenOfNC

4 and 2 = Not counting the center, if I only have two players on the LOS on my side of the center I will flash "2" above my head to the opposite wing. He should flash "4" back to me. If not, we should have flags. If the line is balanced with 3 on each side of the snapper, there is no signal.

While I have never tried the 4 and 2 method, I believe I can safely say you may find our method to work a little crisper as, all the wings need do is look at the signal by the White hat and, then, count the Offensive backfield. It is really bang bang and pretty fool proof.
So, to recap our method. The R and U count the offense. R and U signal each other with a bent arm and a fist. (I as a Referee, will hold the signal up until darn near the snap.) The wings note the signal, and count the backfield. Prior to all this the H, L, & B count the defense and signal each other, Typically, they will signal each other right after the offense breaks the huddle.
I can tell you it sure as heck took longer to type this than it takes to do on the field.

[Robert Goodman]

The trouble with counting players in the backfield is that it's possible to be neither on the line nor in the backfield. I suppose the comeback to that is that because you're looking for players in such a position anyway (on the finding of which the formation is illegal regardless), you count the backs only if there's nobody in such a position. Is that in fact your answer?

Robert in the Bronx

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by ChickenOfNC

...two players on the LOS on my side of the center I will flash "2" above my head to the opposite wing. He should flash "4" ...

[smart alec comment alert]

But if there are seven on the line, won't there always be three on either side of the center? I mean... if there are two on your side of the snapper and four on the other side of the snapper, then the snapper is not the center?

[jaybird]

then the snapper is not the center?

That's why he is the snapper and should be referred to as such. A center is a tall basketball player.

Originally Posted by jaybird

That's why he is the snapper and should be referred to as such. A center is a tall basketball player.

Not always...I had a "center" that was shorter than my power forward when I coached HS ball about 15 long years ago. He was a better jumper than the power forward, even if he was about 6 inches shorter!

[ChickenOfNC]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

[smart alec comment alert]

But if there are seven on the line, won't there always be three on either side of the center? I mean... if there are two on your side of the snapper and four on the other side of the snapper, then the snapper is not the center?

If you'll go back and look at my whole post, I referred to the "center" early in the post, and the "snapper" at the end. Sometimes an old bit player/fan jargon creeps back into the vocab.