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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 11, 2009, 05:25am
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titans/ravens game

after the titans scored their first touchdown, they lined up for the extra point, and one of the guys on the end of the defense line came rushing across much too soon (he actually ran past the kicker and the ball was snapped and kicked behind him, and the try was good surprisingly), so they called "offsides, unabated to the kicker, 5 yard penalty will be accessed on the kickoff. retry the pat." what i'm confused about is wouldn't it be half the distance to the goal (move from 2 yard line to 1 yard line) and retry? since when can a penalty be assessed 2 plays ahead of time? and by that i mean since the pat was waved off due to unabated, the play never happened, therefor they assessed a penalty 2 plays ahead of time in actuality.
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Old Sun Jan 11, 2009, 08:50am
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On an "unabated" foul in the NFL, they kill the play, making it a dead ball foul, thus the try did not happen, even though the kick got off and was good.

Many teams don't want to move the ball up one yard and the five yard penalty is a greater punishment on the kickoff. I assume that it is a special enforcement provision in the NFL. In Fed ball the choice would have been to decline and replay the try or accept half the distance. Some coaches will choose to decline in order not to change the kickers spot, perception, etc.

Of course any encroachment (offsides) is a dead ball foul in HS ball, there is no "unabated" condition. NCAA is a little different, I believe.
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Old Sun Jan 11, 2009, 09:01am
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I figured this thread would be about the lack of a delay of game call against the Ravens on the drive that led to the winning FG. Now THAT was odd.
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Old Sun Jan 11, 2009, 09:57am
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Mike Pereira covered that issue last week

on Official Review as it came up in a game. Stated the BJ must look at the time then look to see if the ball is snapped so the clock is actually 25 sec + a "beat" so to speak.
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Old Sun Jan 11, 2009, 12:36pm
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The number of offsides calls was greater before this choice was instituted, especially before 2 pt. scoring was adopted. The only other possibility for repeated half-the-distance situation fouling by B was to award a score, and officials would always allow a couple of offsides before thinking about that, so it could delay the game a bit. Some of you may know I consider the whole try a delay of the game, but at least they improved this detail.

Robert
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Old Tue Jan 13, 2009, 12:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonInKansas View Post
I figured this thread would be about the lack of a delay of game call against the Ravens on the drive that led to the winning FG. Now THAT was odd.
Unbelievable that the refs missed that call.
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Old Tue Jan 13, 2009, 01:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DePaul View Post
Unbelievable that the refs missed that call.
That's actually not as big an issue as most fans make it out to be. As Pereira explained last week, the mechanic is for the BJ to recognize the clock has reached 0 (which takes him off his key temporarily) and then look to make sure the ball has not been snapped. He doesn't have the luxury of watching both the clock and the snap at the same time. This leads to a "Zero - bang" as I believe Pereira called it. That means there is usually a slight delay in the clock reaching 0 and the delay of game penalty.

I've only seen the replay once and it did appear to be a little bit longer delay than normal but it wasn't significantly longer. Should it have been a delay of game? Probably. Will the officials get downgraded because of it. Very possible. Unbelieveable that the refs missed that call? No.
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Old Tue Jan 13, 2009, 02:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DePaul View Post
Unbelievable that the refs missed that call.
The defense still had every chance to play defense there. Yawn to the whole thing. Even had my team been involved, I wouldn't hold that up as a reason why a team lost. 3rd and 7 isn't much different that 3rd and 2 if you're going to pass anyway.
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Old Sun Jan 18, 2009, 08:38am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
The number of offsides calls was greater before this choice was instituted, especially before 2 pt. scoring was adopted. The only other possibility for repeated half-the-distance situation fouling by B was to award a score, and officials would always allow a couple of offsides before thinking about that, so it could delay the game a bit. Some of you may know I consider the whole try a delay of the game, but at least they improved this detail.

Robert
this is exactly what i was thinking. if it was enforced how i thought it was, why not just get a jump on the snap every time, you only have 1 yard to lose. i now see why they have an option.

what about awarding a score? are you saying that would be another option? because you can't "award" a score in any level of football, that would be retarded. what would the rule be, you get a penalty with the ball inside the 6 inch line and it's automatic? pfft.
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Old Sun Jan 18, 2009, 08:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PackersFTW View Post
this is exactly what i was thinking. if it was enforced how i thought it was, why not just get a jump on the snap every time, you only have 1 yard to lose. i now see why they have an option.

what about awarding a score? are you saying that would be another option? because you can't "award" a score in any level of football, that would be retarded. what would the rule be, you get a penalty with the ball inside the 6 inch line and it's automatic? pfft.
Be careful with statements like this. I can't answer for the NFL or NCAA but I know this isn't true in FED.
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Old Sun Jan 18, 2009, 12:18pm
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Originally Posted by PackersFTW View Post
what about awarding a score? are you saying that would be another option? because you can't "award" a score in any level of football, that would be retarded. what would the rule be, you get a penalty with the ball inside the 6 inch line and it's automatic? pfft.
NFL:

The Referee may award a touchdown when a palpably unfair act...
The Referee could award three points for a palpably unfair act...

The defense shall not commit sucessive or continued fouls to prevent a score.
Penalty: For continuous fouls to prevent a score: If the violation is repeated after a warning, the score involved is awarded to the offensive team.

NCAA:

The referee may take any action he considers equitable, including...awarding a score...

NFHS:

The referee enforces any penalty he considers equitable, including the award of a score....Repeated fouls (Art. 2) - the game may be forfeited.
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Old Sun Jan 18, 2009, 07:40pm
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you can't "award" a score in any level of football
Wanna bet?
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Old Mon Feb 02, 2009, 10:34am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDUB View Post
NFL:

The Referee may award a touchdown when a palpably unfair act...
The Referee could award three points for a palpably unfair act...

The defense shall not commit sucessive or continued fouls to prevent a score.
Penalty: For continuous fouls to prevent a score: If the violation is repeated after a warning, the score involved is awarded to the offensive team.

NCAA:

The referee may take any action he considers equitable, including...awarding a score...

NFHS:

The referee enforces any penalty he considers equitable, including the award of a score....Repeated fouls (Art. 2) - the game may be forfeited.
forgot about the palpably. ya, i was thinking about like if a receiver went up for a catch in the end zone, and the defender just grabbed him by the face mask and ripped him down, not allowing him to catch it or something. basically, i was thinking of scores being awarded on regular plays, which don't happen. also, when asking questions or making statements, i don't consider high school to be in the conversation when discussing rules, as you can tell (you did mention the palpably in the nfl though). 99% of the time, people aren't talking about high school in regards to anything sports related, let alone rules. i can't remember the last time one of my friends was like "hey did you see that high school game on public access?". not even when i was going to high school did i hear about high school football.

btw, many people ask questions in the form of statements. i'm one of them. for instance, "what? they can't do that!" could possibly mean "they can't do that from what i know, but if somebody knows different, tell me." this is in the same boat as using absolute statements when you really don't mean them literally, such as "i never make mistakes while driving". i'm clarifying this because some people are really immature and love to insult others on the web, so they use every little thing they can against a person.

Last edited by PackersFTW; Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 10:39am.
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Old Mon Feb 02, 2009, 07:56pm
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Originally Posted by PackersFTW View Post
i don't consider high school to be in the conversation when discussing rules, as you can tell (you did mention the palpably in the nfl though). 99% of the time, people aren't talking about high school in regards to anything sports related, let alone rules. i can't remember the last time one of my friends was like "hey did you see that high school game on public access?". not even when i was going to high school did i hear about high school football.
We've gone over this before. The vast vast majority of members on this forum work nothing higher than high school games. If you ask a question on here you are going to get NFHS (high school) responses. If you post on here then you must change your view of the rules. I would say more than 90% of the posts on here deal with NF rules, about 9% deal with NCAA rules, and the other 1% are split between Canadian rules and NFL.
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Old Tue Feb 03, 2009, 12:47am
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Originally Posted by LDUB View Post
We've gone over this before. The vast vast majority of members on this forum work nothing higher than high school games. If you ask a question on here you are going to get NFHS (high school) responses. If you post on here then you must change your view of the rules. I would say more than 90% of the posts on here deal with NF rules, about 9% deal with NCAA rules, and the other 1% are split between Canadian rules and NFL.
And another 0.2% miscellaneous like AFA. It's not a non-random sample here, just that a lot more games are played by Fed rules than those others.
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