Illegal Forward Pass Ruling in SD-PIT Game

[Welpe]

Here is what happened. The booth buzzed the R and said the last play needed to be reviewed. Whether or not there was a illegal forward pass is one such play that may be reviewed. They reviewed the play and realized that there was an illegal forward pass but that the penalty would be declined by Pittsburgh. OK fine, line up for the PAT.

While lining up for the PAT, an onfield official runs in and confers with the Referee. The Referee announces that the illegal forward pass makes the ball dead. The easiest explanation for this is that they incorrectly thought the backward pass that hit the ground was in fact the one that was ruled forward. That would make the ball dead. They simply screwed it up on the field.

That explanation makes a lot more sense than an onfield official running in and telling the R, "Hey this will mean that Pittsburgh covers the spread. We have to overrule this!"

A screwup this big is going to expose the crew and league to much criticism and I highly doubt they would intentionally open themselves up it. To do so in the same year as the Hoculi incident and other high profile incidents would be very foolish.

Let's take the rest point by point:

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

1. Legal betters in Las Vegas had an $83 Million swing on the outcome of the game.

Similar with every other nationally televised football game, I'm sure.

2. 13 Penalties on Pittsburgh to 1 for the Chargers.

Completely irrelevant. You've never had a lopsided game where one pitcher can find the strike zone and the other can't? If a team commits more fouls, they will be assessed more penalties.

The pass interference call on the Steelers in the first / second quarter was simply a joke

I didn't see the foul so you will have to enlighten us. Why was it a joke? Did it not fit into one of the categories of pass interference or is that just your opinion?

3. The score was 11-10 - Steelers won so why even bother going over the play to begin with whether the call was right / wrong - It meant NOTHING at that point. The Chargers didn't care - They lost and the Steelers didn't care they ALREADY won.

Because it is the rule and the accuracy of the score and the statistics depend upon it.

4. IR's main use is to make certain that no team gets hosed - Not change the score to accomodate a point spread. There was absolutley no reason for the Replay official to even get involved with this.

That's a mighty big speculation on your end and you have no proof to backup that is why this play was reviewed. This play was reviewed by the booth because they saw a pass that looked forward and they were required by rule to review it.

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

First things first

It's not Flimsy when that type of money is involved and the ENTITE state of affairs in the game starting with the Penalty disparity.

So how can the entire state of affairs be at risk over this play when you already said the game was already decided?

It happened in the NBA. There is far more money bet on football games than basketball.

Donaghy got away with what he did for so long because he made subtle foul calls that affected his games by shaving points. Not by changing the entire spread of a game in one call. By all accounts, he acted as a lone official. This is an entire crew we're talking about here, so not only would the entire field crew need to be in on the fix but so would the replay officials. Entire crews have been known to blow calls in the heat of the moment. This time it just happened to effect the spread.

If it happend in the NBA what makes you think it cannot happen in Football. Do you really believe that he is the ONLY Official ever involved?

I never said it couldn't happen in football but I would hope you would have more than flimsy evidence before impugning the integrity of this crew. You're not even content to give them the benefit of the doubt, something I would hope you would afford another official.

Answer this question, why does the NFL care about the point spread of this particular game?

[Raymond]

SDS should be all over this.

[JugglingReferee]

Welpe, you must have been bored this afternoon because that clown didn't deserve that much of your time.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Welpe, you must have been bored this afternoon because that clown didn't deserve that much of your time.

You're right...slow day. Besides when I get writing on a subject, its hard to stop sometimes.

[ajmc]

Arguing with a fool is always a losing proposition, even when you do it on a point by point basis. If every time a bet doesn't work out the way the bettor wanted, we are going to run towards some silly conspiracy theory, we're going to be spending a lot of time on losing bettor's whining.

What continues to amaze me is that some people still think that this whole "instant replay" idea is going to reach perfection. The gamblers who pissed and moaned because they bet on losing choices before instant replay, are still whining and complaining and no matter what technology does to bring decisions down to a finer and finer point, they will continue to complain when their hunches don't pan out.

The real fools, in this process, are the rest of us who bother to listen to this garbage. Bettors bet because they have convinced themselves they are smarter than everyone else and can handicap anything to a point where they think they know, better than anyone else, how things will turn out.

The smart bettors know that that there are always unanticipated consequnces lurking and factor that into the risk-reward ratio and take results that prove them wrong in stride. The un-smart (didn't want to say stupid) bettors fail to anticipate anything other than ego and are ill prepared to accept that they "chose wrong". If they can't deal with picking wrong, they should stop picking rather than waste everybody's time looking for fantasy conspiracies.

People who bet can't comprehend how other people can be totally impartial, and trying to explain it to them is an absolute waste of time, why bother.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by ajmc

People who bet can't comprehend how other people can be totally impartial, and trying to explain it to them is an absolute waste of time, why bother.

You make a good point, Al. Perhaps part of me was hoping I could reach a fellow official.

Chalk all of this up to yet another reason I don't gamble.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by ajmc

The smart bettors know that that there are always unanticipated consequnces lurking and factor that into the risk-reward ratio and take results that prove them wrong in stride.

The smart bettors know that the bookmakers set the line in order to bring in approximately equal amounts of money on either side of any game. No matter how the game ends, bookies use the losers' money to pay off the winners. Bookies make their money on the cut, not the outcome, so they don't care who wins or how.

Only losers care how.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by mbyron

The smart bettors know that the bookmakers set the line in order to bring in approximately equal amounts of money on either side of any game. No matter how the game ends, bookies use the losers' money to pay off the winners. Bookies make their money on the cut, not the outcome, so they don't care who wins or how.

Only losers care how.

Exactly, Batman. What people don't understand about how it really works. If you've "balanced your book," who wins and how is immaterial.

[TussAgee11]

Whoa Pete, that made me bad. No offense, but I don't think I'd like to work with you if that's how you roll.

According to your logic, you'd think I was taking a bribe from a coach because he was rich, and his team struck out 15 batters while the other one struck out just 1. And, when there was a close play at the plate, I had his runner safe. And when we had **** hit the fan on a wierd play, and we kicked it, it went for his team.

Sometimes, these things just happen.

I, frankly, am not going to throw that crew under the bus. I don't do football, but I consider them my brother official.

As for Donaghy, that punk can rot in jail as far as I'm concerned, a true disgrace to the profession.

And frankly, so are you right now Pete - with absolutely no substantiated evidence you've tried to implicate a brother official. I'm not okay with that. At all.

Sorry to be harsh, I'm not trying to be Internet tough guy here. Its just an extremely strong position.

Football guys, sorry this now general officiating conversation has spilled onto your side of things. I like lurking over here... even though half the time I have NO idea what you're talking about

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Whoa Pete, that made me bad. No offense, but I don't think I'd like to work with you if that's how you roll.

According to your logic, you'd think I was taking a bribe from a coach because he was rich, and his team struck out 15 batters while the other one struck out just 1. And, when there was a close play at the plate, I had his runner safe. And when we had **** hit the fan on a wierd play, and we kicked it, it went for his team.

Tuss you are using the wrong logic.

Suppose you saw a Fellow Official calling pitches balls that were "right down Broadway" time after time for ONE team then had a different strike zone altogether for another.

It has happened and in our kneck of the woods these types of umpires were labeled "homers"

I, frankly, am not going to throw that crew under the bus. I don't do football, but I consider them my brother official.

No ones's throwing anyone "under the bus" but pointing out facts that even the NFL has not explained. I was merely pointing out that in lite of Donaghy the idea of corruption exists.

As for Donaghy, that punk can rot in jail as far as I'm concerned, a true disgrace to the profession.

And frankly, so are you right now Pete - with absolutely no substantiated evidence you've tried to implicate a brother official. I'm not okay with that. At all.

Again I am NOT implicating anyone but presenting "another side" of events. If it happened in the NBA why not football where there is millions of dollars bet.

Sorry I hit a nerve but if a major league baseball umpire called pitches right down Broadway Balls for one team and a completely different zone for the other the same analogy would be drawn.

Pete Booth

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Suppose you saw a Fellow Official calling pitches balls that were "right down Broadway" time after time for ONE team then had a different strike zone altogether for another.

It has happened and in our kneck of the woods these types of umpires were labeled "homers"

Sorry I hit a nerve but if a major league baseball umpire called pitches right down Broadway Balls for one team and a completely different zone for the other the same analogy would be drawn.

So far the only example of a call which was wrong which you have cited was "The pass interference call on the Steelers in the first / second quarter was simply a joke"

Answer this question off the top of your head right now....what constitutes pass interference in the NFL?

I doubt you know what you are talking about when it comes to NFL rules and how they are enforced on the field. You're no different than some whining fanboy complaining about all the bad calls in the game last weekend.

[Welpe]

LDUB, we're wasting our time. I'm sorry I even bothered responding.

[PackersFTW]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Here is what happened. The booth buzzed the R and said the last play needed to be reviewed. Whether or not there was a illegal forward pass is one such play that may be reviewed. They reviewed the play and realized that there was an illegal forward pass but that the penalty would be declined by Pittsburgh. OK fine, line up for the PAT.

While lining up for the PAT, an onfield official runs in and confers with the Referee. The Referee announces that the illegal forward pass makes the ball dead. The easiest explanation for this is that they incorrectly thought the backward pass that hit the ground was in fact the one that was ruled forward. That would make the ball dead. They simply screwed it up on the field.

That explanation makes a lot more sense than an onfield official running in and telling the R, "Hey this will mean that Pittsburgh covers the spread. We have to overrule this!"

A screwup this big is going to expose the crew and league to much criticism and I highly doubt they would intentionally open themselves up it. To do so in the same year as the Hoculi incident and other high profile incidents would be very foolish.

perfect!

[OverAndBack]

Saw Pereira on NFL Network Wednesday. Now it makes a little more sense to me.

He said they're going to make sure the referee takes another official with him to the review tent and that they fill out a little form to keep the bookkeeping straight.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

Saw Pereira on NFL Network Wednesday. Now it makes a little more sense to me.

He said they're going to make sure the referee takes another official with him to the review tent and that they fill out a little form to keep the bookkeeping straight.

What's interesting with this is that MP said that some R's already took a fellow official to the hood with them. As far as I can recall, this is the first bookkeeping mistake in ~ 9 years.