Casebook help

Need a little help please. Just youth league ball (Fed ruleset) but still, it’s playoffs.

I usually run my own field (3 person) in the regular season but less teams = less fields thus I’m assigned as a forth on an existing veteran 3 person crew (their experience: youth league only). So 3rd game of a 4 gm set…

1. A7 runs towards the endzone & gets facemasked by B as he breaks the tackle to score.
Presentation to captain was “decline & TD stands”. I provided info to the WH that they didn’t have to decline. 8-2-2 gives the options of enforcing on the try or subsequent kickoff. But he shut me down, can anyone provide a similar case play for me?


2. A7 is tackled by B37 after gaining a first down near Team Bs sideline. Team Bs coach says to B37 "keep hitting, they’re getting tired". A7 gets up, looks directly at the sideline & says "I’m not getting FREAKIN” tired.
I hit him with a USC (12 yr olds).
The WH decides to make it a DOG instead because the kid wouldn’t play in next weekends Super Bowl if they advanced… That’s neither here nor there, I can accept being overruled. BTW, when that decision was made Team B coach protested the game.
My point is, the crew wanted to set the chains & mark off 5 for 1st & 15. Once again, I provided info to the WH that it occurred before the chains were set and a RFP whistle so we should mark then set as in 5-3-1. He shut me down once again, told the coach (right in front of me) that he can change my USC to DOG if wanted to & said he’d set the chains 1st & 15. Can anyone provide a similar case play for me?

Thanks in advance

[ajmc]

Wow, there are a couple of things worth discussing, but Case Book plays are not on the list. In the TD situation you are correct, the scoring team has the additional options of accepting the score and a choice of accepting the penalty on the try or the subsequent KO.

Clearly your Referee wasn't aware, or possibly forgot, that recent major rule revision. You could reference the Case Book, if you thought it would help, but quoting chapter and verse likely wouldn't help, at least at that moment. The only suggestion, for avoiding such a response in the future, is to consider how you approached the referee with the information. If you immediately pulled him aside and explained quietly that it was your understand that the rule has recently been revised to provide..........., you've done your job.

If a Referee decides to reject or ignore your information, that's entirely on him. You might renew the discussion at the half, or after the game where the added detail might be helpful, but if he still rejects it, you're only response may be to reconsider future assignments with this person.

On the "comment" issue, again your rule interpretation is correct, and the Referee has no authority or jurisdiction to reclassify any foul you call, unless you are applying a rule incorrectly. However, at times discretion ca be the better part of valor.

Assuming "freaking" is a substitute for the actual word chosen, the USC penalty is not (at least by NFHS rule) an automatic disqualification. That's a decision you, as the calling official, get to make. In consideration of the age of the player, a more supportive referee may have chosen to provide a more detailed explanation of the incident to the offending player's coach allowing hime the opportunity to deal withe player and also consider the consequences of his yelling at his players from across the field.

the 15 yard penalty is the proper assessment for the USC, and it should be marked off prior to setting the chains and declaring the ball RFP, producing a 1st and 10 situation from the succeeding spot.

To your original question, providing informative details and backup is only important if the person you're talking to has some intention to listen to what you are saying. The referee's behavior, in front of either coach, is indefensible which, again, might give you pause to accepting further assignments with him.

Thanks for the reply!

Originally Posted by ajmc

The only suggestion, for avoiding such a response in the future, is to consider how you approached the referee with the information. If you immediately pulled him aside and explained quietly that it was your understand that the rule has recently been revised to provide..........., you've done your job.

I do a little lower-level HS ball so I know the proper procedure to communicate with the crew. I also know how I like info brought to me when I'm wearing the WH. I'm not about I'm right but what's right...

Originally Posted by ajmc

On the "comment" issue, again your rule interpretation is correct, and the Referee has no authority or jurisdiction to reclassify any foul you call, unless you are applying a rule incorrectly.

Didn't know that!

Originally Posted by ajmc

Assuming "freaking" is a substitute for the actual word chosen, the USC penalty is not (at least by NFHS rule) an automatic disqualification. That's a decision you, as the calling official, get to make. In consideration of the age of the player, a more supportive referee may have chosen to provide a more detailed explanation of the incident to the offending player's coach allowing hime the opportunity to deal withe player and also consider the consequences of his yelling at his players from across the field.

Ooookaaayy, I should've mentioned the same player had been talked to on different occasions in the 1st half. He was hit with a USC prior to mine. So I believe I was as supportive as possible.
There was no "yelling across the field" you lost me there.

Thanks again, but I was really looking for similar casebook play.

[kdf5]

IMHO, the white hat isn't qualified to work PeeWee. ajmc had it right. In play #1, the FM can be enforced on the try or KO. In play #2, it's an USC and if it was his second one he's gone by rule. If you deemed it flagrant per 2-16-2c, you could eject him then and there. Why your WH was worried about the kid not playing when he's had two USC's is stupid. A 12 year old dropping F-Bombs NEEDS to sit out next week. The only way you get more than 1st & 10 is if there's a dead ball foul after the ready and you were correct again. I'm sure it's tough to find officials willing to work the living hell known as PeeWee football but certainly you can find some guys who at least care to know the rules.

[ajmc]

Sorry CH1town, for whatever reason I misunderstood that the play, in example 2, happened "in front of the "A" bench, not as you stated, "near Team Bs sideline".

[jontheref]

I agree with everyone ---and only add a couple of small things.

#1-- The option rule applies to TDs scored by the offense...when the foul is committed by the defense. An interception for a TD and a facemask penalty for example would not qualify under the rule.

#2-- You will never have a situation where you will be first and 25 unless you have already set the chains.

#3-- As for the word "freaking" as in a two word variation of this...we had a situation a couple of weeks ago where we had hold by the offense...the guy who committed the hold telling the official what he could do, as the player was running 50 yards for a touch down. That was a particularly entertaining sequence. Penalize the hold....then go back half the distance to the goal for the USC and have to explain to the coach that all misconduct fouls are administered and thats why both "live ball" fouls were being walked off.