Slapping the Snap

[Mike L]

You better rethink that or are you not going to allow the defense to penetrate the neutral zone until the QB in shotgun formation touches the ball?
It's really pretty simple, if the snap is done correctly it is not possible for the defense to slap the ball out of the snappers hand. Therefore, you must either have a snap infraction because the snap was not done properly or you have encroachment because the defense was in the zone prior to the snap.

[bigjohn]

Snap infraction is false start!

PENALTY: Encroachment (Arts. 1, 5, 6) – (S7-18); snap infraction (Arts. 2, 3);
false start (Art. 7) – (S7-19) – 5 yards.

[Welpe]

John those are different fouls referencing different articles of that rule.

[bigjohn]

Same signal for snap infraction and false start, same penalty.

[bigjohn]

What is the signal for snap infraction?

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Same signal for snap infraction and false start, same penalty.

Same signal for helping runner and interlocked blocking, different penalty.

[bigjohn]

If you look on the signal chart, signal 44 states both of those infractions. Signal 19 says false start or illegal formation.

http://i38.tinypic.com/iyzoqx.jpg

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

If you look on the signal chart, signal 44 states both of those infractions. Signal 19 says false start or illegal formation.

http://i38.tinypic.com/iyzoqx.jpg

You missed my point.

You say that false start and snap infraction are the same thing because they have the same signal and same penalty. They're not.

Signal 44 is for both helping the runner and interlocking blocking, only they're not the same thing (despite having the same signal) and they carry different penalties.

You're wrong to say that a false start and a snap infraction are the same thing because they have the same signal and therefore the same penalty. Snap infraction is not false start.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Same signal for snap infraction and false start, same penalty.

Yes, the penalty is the same but it is a different foul.

ART. 7 . . . After the ball is marked ready for play and before the snap begins,
no false start shall be made by any A player. It is a false start if:
a. A shift or feigned charge simulates action at the snap.
b. Any act is clearly intended to cause B to encroach.
c. Any A player on his line between the snapper and the player on the end of
his line, after having placed a hand(s) on or near the ground, moves his
hand(s) or makes any quick movement.

I don't see snap infraction listed as a reason for a false start.

This is a snap infraction:

ART. 2 . . . The snapper may lift the ball for lateral rotation but may not rotate
end-for-end or change the location or fail to keep the long axis of the ball at right
angles to the line of scrimmage.
ART. 3 . . . Following the ready-for-play and after touching the ball, the snapper
shall not:
a. Remove both hands from the ball.
b. Make any movement that simulates a snap.
c. Fail to clearly pause before the snap.
d. Following adjustment, lift or move the ball other than in a legal snap.

[bigjohn]

Those things can all cause B to encroach so they are false starts as well as snap infractions. Same thing. Same penalty same signal!

Point is if B hinders the snap or causes a false start it is USC.
Using 9-5-1d as rule.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Those things can all cause B to encroach so they are false starts as well as snap infractions. Same thing. Same penalty same signal!

Man, I quoted you what is a false start and what is a snap infraction. What is so difficult about this. 2 fouls having the same penalty or the same signal do not mean they are the same foul.

Here is a list of fouls which use signal #19.

5. Free-kick infraction........................................ .................................................. .......................6-1-2 7-19
7. Free kick out of bounds............................................ .................................................. ............6-1-8 19
9. Snap infraction .................................................. .................................................. ...............7-1-2, 3 7-19
10. False Start .................................................. .................................................. ..........................7-1-7 7-19
11. Illegal formation .................................................. .................................................. .........7-2-1, 2, 3 19
12. Less than seven players on A’s line or numbering violation......................................... ..........7-2-5 19
14. Planned loose-ball infraction........................................ .................................................. ........7-2-8 19
25. Attendant illegally on field .................................................. .................................................. ..9-8-2 19

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Snap infraction is false start!

PENALTY: Encroachment (Arts. 1, 5, 6) – (S7-18); snap infraction (Arts. 2, 3);
false start (Art. 7) – (S7-19) – 5 yards.

John, you do know that a snap infraction is a foul on the offense, right?