Slapping the Snap

[bigjohn]

I say slapping at the snap by the NG is USC, anyone agree?





SITUATION 10: On third and 10 from A's 40-yard line, all team A players are set. While quarterback A1 is calling signals, defensive back B1, starting from a position eight yards behind his line of scrimmage, runs toward the neutral zone. B1 stops directly in front of tackle A4 but does not enter the neutral zone. In response to B1's charge, A4 (a) does not move, or (b) flinches.
_______________________________________________


RULING: No foul in (a). In (b), A4 is guilty of a dead-ball foul for false start. If in the official's judgment the action by B1 was for the purpose of disconcerting or hindering A, it is an unsportsmanlike conduct foul. In this case, the official should sound his whistle before the snap. (7-1-7; 9-5-1d)

[waltjp]

John, you're stuck on this point. The case play you post does not address the legality of the B slapping the ball away after the snap begins. If B does not cross the neutral zone until the snap begins there is no foul.

You can debate all day as to whether the nose guard is fast enough to pull this off legally but that doesn't change the fact that the action, if done properly, is legal.

[bigjohn]

slapping the snap causes a snap infraction, no? That is false start. It is a disconcerting action that causes A to false start so it should be USC!

[Sonofanump]

B is guilty is something, I think 5 yards for either delay or Encroching.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Sonofanump

B is guilty is something, I think 5 yards for either delay or Encroching.

You can't be serious with this answer. What did B do that was illegal?

[Sonofanump]

Originally Posted by waltjp

You can't be serious with this answer. What did B do that was illegal?

What is human reaction time? The center is the person snapping and he knows when the snap is going to occur. No way the defender could time this perfectly to beat a center who is snapping the ball.

[FTVMartin]

I had this earlier this year when I was working HL. I called it encroachment because he came across early. I don't think it is possible to hit the ball without coming across early.

[bigjohn]

A scrimmage down must start with a legal snap. An illegal
snap causes the ball to remain dead.


The call for snap infraction is false start. Disconcerting acts by B that cause a false start are USC according to 9-5-1d

[ajmc]

It may be humanly possible for a defensive player to be so quick, or time an attempt so perfectly that he could reach a snap after it has started, without encroaching, but 999 times out of 1,000 the correct call is encroachment.

Personally, I'm not looking for that 1 super human effort, and rather than motivate any player to be that 1 in a 1,000, I consider any successful slap of a snap a foul for encroachment.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

slapping the snap causes a snap infraction, no? That is false start.

A snap infraction is a false start? I think you might want to learn some definitions.

[With_Two_Flakes]

We play NCAA Rules over here in the UK and have no problems since NCAA Rules and AR's are quite specific on this point. Firstly NCAA Rules have a Section about Defensive Team Requirements (7-1-5) and a specific AR 7-1-5-II that addresses this exact issue.

Snapper A1 legally begins the snap, but B2 bats the ball before A1 completes the snap, and B3 recovers the ball.
RULING: Team B foul and the ball is dead.
Penalty -- Five yards from the succeeding spot. Team B may not touch the ball until it has been snapped. Team A retains possession.

I'm not quite so familiar with Fed rules as I only get to work them a couple of times every 3 or 4 years when I travel to the US. Fed rules lack a specific section for defensive requirements, but perhaps this is because the Fed Rules Ctte. feel there is adequate existing coverage in 7-1-5 already.

However, Rule 7 Section 1 BEFORE THE SNAP Article 5 says no player except the snapper shall encroach on the neutral zone. That includes the defence. I would think it reasonable and appropriate to interpret "before the snap" to mean "before the end of the snap".
The end of the snap is defined in 2-40-3 as "when the ball touches the ground or any player". Therefore I would maintain that it cannot be legally possible for a defensive player to put his hand across to touch the ball before the snap is completed since he will have encroached.

[Mike L]

You better rethink that or are you not going to allow the defense to penetrate the neutral zone until the QB in shotgun formation touches the ball?
It's really pretty simple, if the snap is done correctly it is not possible for the defense to slap the ball out of the snappers hand. Therefore, you must either have a snap infraction because the snap was not done properly or you have encroachment because the defense was in the zone prior to the snap.

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

I say slapping at the snap by the NG is USC, anyone agree?

No

[Welpe]

John, the unfair acts rule is not a catch-all for the "That don't look right" football play.

This is part of the Rule 2 definition of a rule:

A rule sometimes states what a player may do, but if there is no such statement for a given act (such as faking a kick), it is assumed that he may do what is not prohibited.

This is from an earlier post of mine it is not exactly the same topic but the idea is the same:

Originally Posted by Welpe

Football is all about deception and trickery. Hard snap counts, fake field goals, fake punts, free kicking directly from a huddle, going on first sound, going on 2, Dan Marino's fake spike and touch down pass...all of these are deceptive. So was the fumblerooski and when the Federation decided that it was too deceptive, it was specifically made illegal.

Bush League does not equal illegal...this is true in most sports, not just football.

[bigjohn]

By BUSH LEAGUE I mean unsporting! Notice it says examples but not limited to!

ART. 1 . . . No player shall act in an unsportsmanlike manner once the officials
assume authority for the contest. Examples are, but not limited to:
a. Baiting or taunting acts or words or insignia worn which engenders ill will.
NOTE: The NFHS disapproves of any form of taunting which is intended or designed
to embarrass, ridicule or demean others under any circumstances including on the
basis of race, religion, gender or national origin.
b. Using profanity, insulting or vulgar language or gestures.
c. Any delayed, excessive or prolonged act by which a player attempts to
focus attention upon himself.
d. Using disconcerting acts or words prior to the snap in an attempt to
interfere with A’s signals or movements.
e. Kicking at the ball, other than during a legal kick.
f. Leaving the field between downs to gain an advantage unless replaced or
unless with permission of an official.
g. Refusing to comply with an official’s request.
h. Using tobacco or smokeless tobacco.
ART. 2 . . . When the ball becomes dead in possession of a player, he shall not:
a. Intentionally kick the ball.
b. Spike the ball into the ground.
c. Throw the ball high into the air or from the field of play or end zone.
d. Intentionally fail to place the ball on the ground or immediately return it to
a nearby official.