Sayville NY Protest

[TXMike]

ANother story from newsday.com ( a "heads up play" ??????)

Kings Park player is toast of town for heads-up playBY GREGG SARRA | [email protected]
12:18 PM EDT, October 9, 2008

Kings Park's Conor Kelly was at the center of controversial play that helped his team defeat Sayville on Saturday. (Photo by Joseph D. Sullivan / October 9, 2008)

This was Christmas morning for some on a fall Saturday afternoon. It was too good to be true for Kings Park linebacker Conor Kelly. An almost certain loss to Sayville seemed inevitable. Yet, somewhere in the recesses of Kelly's mind was the smallest notion of what if . . .

There is always a "what if" scenario in sports. That's why all football players at all levels from peewees to the NFL are taught from the first day of practice that it's never over until the final whistle blows.

Kelly made the season's most improbable, but totally heads-up play. With six seconds left and Sayville leading 35-27, Sayville faced a fourth-and-1 from its own 41. Quarterback Dillon Boos fumbled the snap and the ball bounced toward halfback Corey Caulfield. A diving Caulfield had the ball squirt from under his facemask as Kelly went down on to his knees and grabbed the ball. Kelly then threw the ball backward over his head 11 yards, toward the Sayville goal line.

Kelly, a 6-3, 205 pound captain, a three-year starter, is the toast of Kings Park for having the presence of mind to make the play and for battling until the clock read 0:00. The strong side linebacker came hard off the end on the final play.

"We're taught to never give up and that's what our coaches preach," he said. "I came in as fast as I could and I ripped it out of his [Caulfield] hands. And I wanted to keep the ball alive. So I thought we'd have a chance if I threw it toward the goal line."

Kelly laughed while recalling the play.

"It was so unbelievable," he said. "I took the ball and threw it over my head and then I saw [Sean] Russell running with it. I was in pure shock."

Russell caught the ball on a bounce and ran it in for a touchdown to make it 35-33 as time expired. A two-point conversion tied it at 35 and the Kingsmen won in overtime.

Boos still can't believe the finish.

"Coach Hoss called a quick kick to catch them off guard and I was going to toss it back to Corey," Boos said. "I fumbled it after the snap because I was trying to do it so fast. We had just come back from 27-14 and I was thinking this isn't happening. The ref was standing right there. How could he not see [Kelly] throw the ball over his head. You can't even do that in a schoolyard with 10-year-olds. It was totally illegal. That's not a play, that's not real, no way."

It's very real

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by TXMike

ANother story from newsday.com ( a "heads up play" ??????)

Kings Park player is toast of town for heads-up playBY GREGG SARRA | [email protected]
12:18 PM EDT, October 9, 2008

"The ref was standing right there. How could he not see [Kelly] throw the ball over his head. You can't even do that in a schoolyard with 10-year-olds. It was totally illegal. That's not a play, that's not real, no way."

It's very real

This is one of those plays that's easier to call from a distance than from on the field. At first, it looks like A might recover, but they held their whistles and the ball slips out. Then as the R closed in to see if B recovers the ball flew out of the pile. I think the either wing would have had a better look at it than the white hat.

This play could should have had a flag (which could have been picked up if needed) or a discussion after the play and a late flag -that wouldn't have been very good but it would be better than letting it stand.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by TXMike

"Coach Hoss called a quick kick to catch them off guard and I was going to toss it back to Corey," Boos said. "I fumbled it after the snap because I was trying to do it so fast.

You quick kick with 6 secs. left and an 8 pt. lead!!??? You deserve to lose for that reason alone! (Although the other team might not deserve to win.)

[Ed Hickland]

Thanks to those who sent private messages. I have been bombarded with calls, messages, opionions, etc. over this one call.

I remembered how I tried to get those 6 seconds off the clock but being honest the play clock started at 31. Then came the delay of game, in fact, the clock was directed to put 6 on the clock has it had ticked down to one and he was the losing home team operator.

The Newsday message board wants my head and funny thing happened yesterday, got a call to do a game at Sayville -- not on my life!

Quickly, here is what happened. The fumbled snap came rolling toward me and it appeared it had been recovered and I would have to separate the players to determine possession. Notice the Kings Park player come in and shield my view at the same time I am looking for the ball and holding my whistle when suddenly the ball is in the air. How did it get there? At 1/5 normal speed the answer is simple in real time not so simple.

We conferenced. The story I got was the player in wrestling the ball away knocked it in the air. Whats the rule, if you cannot prove intentional its accidential and I am positive someone will criticize the logic.

Should I have seen the throw (the player admitted he threw the ball yesterday)? Should I have been so close?

We did not make the right decision and why? I had the line judge on that side go over the video.

This is one of those where you blew it and egos prevent you from saying it.

[daggo66]

Ed, you are certainly not alone in this mess, though as white hat you are held responsible. Someone on your crew should have come up with a least one of the many possible calls that could have prevented the score. Rest assurred that some good may come of it. From now on in all of my pre-games I will stress maintaining concentration even when it appears the game is over. One question, and one that everyone should consider if the opportunity should arise. Was there any way you could have delayed your RFP to get you under 25 seconds?

[waltjp]

I would advise against delaying the RFP in a close game like this. Let it play out. Fumbles happen. Bad snaps happen. Forget the controversy surrounding this play, by delaying the RFP you're taking a chance away from one of the teams.

I once worked a playoff game where the R did just this. B was trailing by 3 points. A was just held short of a first down. We set the ball with about 30 seconds left in the game. The R held his whistle until the clock was under 25 seconds and then told A that they didn't need a to snap the ball.

His reasoning was he wanted to 'prevent any problems'. What he prevented was a chance at a miracle win by B.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by waltjp

I would advise against delaying the RFP in a close game like this. Let it play out. Fumbles happen. Bad snaps happen. Forget the controversy surrounding this play, by delaying the RFP you're taking a chance away from one of the teams.

I once worked a playoff game where the R did just this. B was trailing by 3 points. A was just held short of a first down. We set the ball with about 30 seconds left in the game. The R held his whistle until the clock was under 25 seconds and then told A that they didn't need a to snap the ball.

His reasoning was he wanted to 'prevent any problems'. What he prevented was a chance at a miracle win by B.

Agreed!

[daggo66]

There are many ways to inconspicuously hold that 6 seconds. I'm not advocating standing there staring at the clock waiting for the seconds to tick off. It's all about knowing the situation and the time and working it accordingly. You should always keep a consistent pace on your RFP regardless of the game situation. Had Ed done that we probably wouldn't be having this discussion now. You're not "taking anything away from one of the teams." They have had an entire game to play. Just as it's not up to us to determine the outcome, it's not up to us to enhance their opportunity to win on a fluke play that was incorrectly officiated.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

Thanks to those who sent private messages. I have been bombarded with calls, messages, opionions, etc. over this one call.

I remembered how I tried to get those 6 seconds off the clock but being honest the play clock started at 31. Then came the delay of game, in fact, the clock was directed to put 6 on the clock has it had ticked down to one and he was the losing home team operator.

The Newsday message board wants my head and funny thing happened yesterday, got a call to do a game at Sayville -- not on my life!

Quickly, here is what happened. The fumbled snap came rolling toward me and it appeared it had been recovered and I would have to separate the players to determine possession. Notice the Kings Park player come in and shield my view at the same time I am looking for the ball and holding my whistle when suddenly the ball is in the air. How did it get there? At 1/5 normal speed the answer is simple in real time not so simple.

We conferenced. The story I got was the player in wrestling the ball away knocked it in the air. Whats the rule, if you cannot prove intentional its accidential and I am positive someone will criticize the logic.

Should I have seen the throw (the player admitted he threw the ball yesterday)? Should I have been so close?

We did not make the right decision and why? I had the line judge on that side go over the video.

This is one of those where you blew it and egos prevent you from saying it.

Thanks for sharing your version of the play. I finally got to watch the play last night and speculated it happened as you described it. Because you came in to uncover the pile, you didn't see the player throw the ball. Your logic is correct on intentional/accidental and this time your crew was unfortunately wrong. That sucks but it happens. Too bad your LJ didn't see it though. He should have been wide enough to see this clearly.

Do you think the play would have turned out differently if you had the ability to change balls during the drive? Sorry...couldn't resist.

Keep your chin up and good luck the rest of the season. I'm sure now you can sympathize with Mr. Hochuli.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

Thanks for sharing your version of the play. I finally got to watch the play last night and speculated it happened as you described it. Because you came in to uncover the pile, you didn't see the player throw the ball. Your logic is correct on intentional/accidental and this time your crew was unfortunately wrong. That sucks but it happens. Too bad your LJ didn't see it though. He should have been wide enough to see this clearly.

Do you think the play would have turned out differently if you had the ability to change balls during the drive? Sorry...couldn't resist.

Keep your chin up and good luck the rest of the season. I'm sure now you can sympathize with Mr. Hochuli.

Hey, maybe the replacement ball would not have been fumbled! BTW. I asked our interpreter for a decision.

I always sympathized with Ed, in fact, dropped him a line just like a lot of folks have done for me. It helps!