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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 09:08am
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End of game - Dirty Play

We had a very competitive varsity game a couple weeks. It was between 2 in-county teams that have a yearly rivalry game. It was a very intense game but in the end the visiting team came out ahead. There was 2 seconds left, the visiting team was on the home team's 5 yard line and was getting ready to kneel on the ball and end the game.

Coach notified the HL that they were going to kneel on the ball. He moved in and started letting the defense know that they were kneeling. At U I also turned to the LB'ers that they were kneeling. There was a LB to my right that was jawing off at the linemen, pointing at the TE saying "I'm gonna get you! Your mine!" As the QB went into his routine, the LB'er starting charging towards the TE and went in, head first at the TE drilling him pretty hard.

How would you all handle this?
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Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 09:19am
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I possibly have an ejection. If the play was late, I would have no problem ejecting the player. He not only said something that showed his intentions, he acted on it.

Now we tell players to "protect themselves" and not to assume anything. But if he was a little late, I got him. Or you could have addressed the situation when he made his comments and hopefully the coach would have got the hint.

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Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 09:29am
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Originally Posted by NM_Ref View Post
We had a very competitive varsity game a couple weeks. It was between 2 in-county teams that have a yearly rivalry game. It was a very intense game but in the end the visiting team came out ahead. There was 2 seconds left, the visiting team was on the home team's 5 yard line and was getting ready to kneel on the ball and end the game.

Coach notified the HL that they were going to kneel on the ball. He moved in and started letting the defense know that they were kneeling. At U I also turned to the LB'ers that they were kneeling. There was a LB to my right that was jawing off at the linemen, pointing at the TE saying "I'm gonna get you! You're mine!" As the QB went into his routine, the LB'er starting charging towards the TE and went in, head first at the TE drilling him pretty hard.

How would you all handle this?
If the LB went in before the snap, I've most definitely got a DQ. I may also decide to end the game if I believe that B's team actions were in conflict with the football playing ethics listed at the start of the rulebook.

If the LB went in after the snap, I've got a UR. There is nothing that says if A is going to take a knee, that B has to let up. If A fumbles the snap, the ball is live and B has 100% of the right to try and recover that ball - in which they can score! Therefore, I do not expect B not to play to the end of the play.
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Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 09:35am
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Originally Posted by JugglingReferee View Post
If the LB went in before the snap, I've most definitely got a DQ. I may also decide to end the game if I believe that B's team actions were in conflict with the football playing ethics listed at the start of the rulebook.

If the LB went in after the snap, I've got a UR. There is nothing that says if A is going to take a knee, that B has to let up. If A fumbles the snap, the ball is live and B has 100% of the right to try and recover that ball - in which they can score! Therefore, I do not expect B not to play to the end of the play.
When I lived in another area of the country, that was our philosophy. Nobody EVER told us there was going to be a knee taken and we handled it as normal.

Here, they ALL notify and they expect both teams to let up. I had a hard time with this at first, but.....when in Rome, I guess. As soon as I see the snap not fumbled and the knee starting down, I blow the whistle, even if the knee hasn't yet touched the ground. Never a complaint by anyone on that. Again, when in Rome.
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Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 10:17am
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Sounds like a flagrant illegal helmet contact foul to me. Flag and eject.
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Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 10:18am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NM_Ref View Post
There was a LB to my right that was jawing off at the linemen, pointing at the TE saying "I'm gonna get you! Your mine!" As the QB went into his routine, the LB'er starting charging towards the TE and went in, head first at the TE drilling him pretty hard.

How would you all handle this?
Taking out a lot of the extra details, you have a LB who makes a statement like that and then drills a guy head first. This is a no brainer - PF and ejection. The PF is for the illegal hit and the ejection is to thank him for announcing to the world that the illegal hit was not poor technique or a mistake, but rather a deliberate attempt to injure another player.
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Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 10:23am
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When I was in college, our best lineman (a senior) had his season ended on this type of play. We were kneeling to run out the last bit of clock, and a LB flew in and broke the lineman's leg.
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Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 10:23am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NM_Ref View Post
There was a LB to my right that was jawing off at the linemen, pointing at the TE saying "I'm gonna get you! Your mine!" As the QB went into his routine, the LB'er starting charging towards the TE and went in, head first at the TE drilling him pretty hard.
You could have flagged the LB's threat before the snap as USC.

The hit could have/should have been flagged as a personal foul. Leading with the head is illegal helmet contact. Sounds like a DQ was definitely in order.

Throw the flags and let the league or state deal with it.
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Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 10:28am
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I only do HS -- but besides the ejection, I am ending the game if it would have taken a second kneel down. You dont get a second bite at the apple. If that means I have to stand over the ball for a half minute reconfirming what down it is, then so be it.
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Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 10:48am
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Originally Posted by jontheref View Post
I only do HS -- but besides the ejection, I am ending the game if it would have taken a second kneel down. You dont get a second bite at the apple. If that means I have to stand over the ball for a half minute reconfirming what down it is, then so be it.
I like it.
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Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 10:53am
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As this play is described, including the pre-snap comments that the covering official heard, not DQing the offending player suggests a real problem with understanding what the role of an official actually is.

We can argue from now until forever about whether, or what, to say to the teams when you're told the offense is taking a knee. That has absolutely nothing to do with a player taking a premediated "cheap shot".

There is no rule, no interpretation, no intent anywhere that can, or should, be weasel worded to allow, or encourage, a player to engage in this type behavior. The consequences of such behavior are severe, as they well should be. It's our job to insure that the full weight of these consequences are enforced.
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Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 11:05am
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Originally Posted by HLin NC View Post
Sounds like a flagrant illegal helmet contact foul to me. Flag and eject.
Ditto. I hope that's what happened.
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Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 11:45am
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Announce the game as over, technically a forfeit 2 secs. short of full time. If the circuit has some beyond-the-game sanction (such as player suspensions) that depends on any report you're required to give, get the offender's number and you can tell them afterward it was a DQ. Get out of there ASAP and leave any subsequent "action" to the police.

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Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 11:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waltjp View Post
You could have flagged the LB's threat before the snap as USC.

The hit could have/should have been flagged as a personal foul. Leading with the head is illegal helmet contact. Sounds like a DQ was definitely in order.

Throw the flags and let the league or state deal with it.
I'm not a football ref, but here's what I'd like to see done. Flag the lineman's threat as USC. Rule it an unfair clock tactic in trying to prevent a play from happening. Then wind the clock on the ready.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 11:48am
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Originally Posted by NM_Ref View Post
How would you all handle this?
I've seen a lot of flags mentioned so far in this thread. But I would expect my umpire to try to prevent the cheap shot in the first place.

You're right there with the kids, and you've heard his plans. A word from the umpire probably prevents the cheap shot and the potential for injury or a fight.
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