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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 23, 2008, 02:34am
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To point out again, the way we handle declared kneel downs is NOT by-the-book, but how we have been instructed to handle it, and all teams abide by it (as far as I have ever heard).

Rockyroad - Asked about an O-liner firing out after declaring a kneeldown - yes definate PF, probable ejection, same criteria as with the D

Walt - for the Unsportsman like. I guess we would file it under 9.2.3.c
If an obviously unfair act not specifically covered by the rules occurs
during the game
It is obviously unfair since they have declared they are giving up the 'right' to advance the ball and just want the clock to run down... Like I said, it is just how it is done here. I was also surprised like Rich when I saw it.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 23, 2008, 07:04am
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Originally Posted by PSU213 View Post
If the play is designed to fool someone, make sure you aren't the fool.
I like that.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 23, 2008, 07:40am
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One last thought as it relates to the coach that yells out and says we are taking a knee and then the QB takes 4 steps to kneel down. QB gets ball....blow the whistle kill the play. There is nothing good that is going to happen if we await the QB to come to his senses and get to his knee. Too many QBs watch too much tv---see the way the qb tries to kill an extra second and all heck breaks lose.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 23, 2008, 09:03am
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I disagree. I'd no sooner do this than I'd signal a TD when the runner was at the 10-yard line with no defender within 20 yards of him. Make the players do what they're supposed to do.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 23, 2008, 09:36am
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You can never assume they are going to do what they say they are going to do. I tell the defense that IF the QB takes a knee not to hit him. I ask the QB to step back from the center to take a knee, this allows him to be protected from the defense trying to crash the line. This should all happen quickly enough that any hits from the LB's would be a late hit. I remind everyone that the play is live and they need to protect themselves.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 23, 2008, 03:28pm
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Originally Posted by Jim D View Post
Secondly, there is no need to tell your WH that you think this requires an ejection. You tell your WH that you have ejected #99 and that's the end of the story. You're not asking some other official to eject him for you, you are ejecting him.
Doesn't the ref rule on all penalties? I don't know of any independent power any other official has in enforcement, and a DQ is a penalty.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 23, 2008, 04:01pm
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I always thought a really smart coach would have his QB on a knee when he takes the snap. So far I have yet to see that.
I'm wondering why would you not step in and try to prevent unnecessary crap going on with a declared kneel down situation? We do all sorts of stuff during the rest of the game to prevent injuries, escalating tension, etc. But for some reason all that goes out the window when the game is obviously over except for running a little bit of time off the clock?

Last edited by Mike L; Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 04:03pm.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 23, 2008, 04:43pm
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Take heart, MikeL, the norm at football fields all over this country is that competent officials take charge of "Take a knee" situations and 99+% of the time all works out as anticipated.

"What if" situations can be good mental exercises to help prepare for the unexpected, but when they are extended beyond any point of rational discussion, or practical application, they can easily become counter productive.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 23, 2008, 08:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike L View Post
I always thought a really smart coach would have his QB on a knee when he takes the snap. So far I have yet to see that.
The whole act of a hand to hand snap is difficult to do; it takes some practice to get it down. Unless the QB and snapper are proficient at snapping with the QB being lower because his knee is on the ground then there is a much higher chance that the snap will be muffed.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 24, 2008, 07:55am
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Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
Doesn't the ref rule on all penalties? I don't know of any independent power any other official has in enforcement, and a DQ is a penalty.

Rule 2-16
ART. 6 . . . Game situations which produce results somewhat similar to pen -
alties, but which are not classified as fouls are: disqualification of a player, first touching of a kick by K and forfeiture of a game.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 24, 2008, 08:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
Doesn't the ref rule on all penalties? I don't know of any independent power any other official has in enforcement, and a DQ is a penalty.

No that's not the case. DQ is a judgement call for the covering official just like every other call. For example, how could the WH decide whether a late hit out of bounds also merited a DQ when he wasn't able to see what happened on the play? The wing has to make the call on the late hit, and only he can decide if the shot also deserves a DQ.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 24, 2008, 08:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmc View Post
...competent officials take charge of "Take a knee" situations...
Please describe how they take charge so we can be sure we are doing it correctly.

Thanks!
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 24, 2008, 11:04am
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Sorry Blue37, that's an answer you have to arrive at all by yourself. There have been many opinions as to how, and how not, to handle this type situation and you have to decide, for yourself, which way works for you, because you are the only one who will have to defend what you decide..
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 24, 2008, 01:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesears View Post
Rule 2-16
ART. 6 . . . Game situations which produce results somewhat similar to pen -
alties, but which are not classified as fouls are: disqualification of a player, first touching of a kick by K and forfeiture of a game.
That's Fed? Strange wording, to say a DQ is a "game situation" which produces a result similar to a penalty but is not a foul. Of course a DQ isn't a foul -- it's an administrative action, not something done by a participant! But it sure as hell is produced by a foul, and I'm pretty sure it's listed in places as "Penalty:...also disqualification of offending player."

What they probably meant to say was that a disqualif'n can't be declined and isn't offset by an opposing foul. Fed used to be a lot more careful about how they wrote their football rule book.

Robert
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 24, 2008, 01:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim D View Post
No that's not the case. DQ is a judgement call for the covering official just like every other call. For example, how could the WH decide whether a late hit out of bounds also merited a DQ when he wasn't able to see what happened on the play? The wing has to make the call on the late hit, and only he can decide if the shot also deserves a DQ.
Who actually administers the DQ? Can the wing just walk up to the player, say, "You're off for the game" or whatever, and write down the player's number? I don't think so. It's the official's judgement as to what happened, but unless things have changed radically, the wing has to explain that to the ref and the ref (or maybe the ump, I'm not up to date on this) actually administers the DQ.

Robert
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