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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 11:50am
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mayhem

End of games, especially "highly spirited" ones can get a bit furry. I am reminded of a game my junior year in college against a bitter rival where they had no chance of winning and were going full tilt, trying to hurt someone. I believe there were two pf in that series. When the buzzer sounded, their whole sideline sprinted on the field and it was on.
The officials sprinted, just as fast, off the field, which I thought at the time was a bit odd.
As a player at the time, I thought it was cool, going after one another after the game. Now, as an official, I think I would have been greatly embarrassed if something like that would happen under my watch.
Surely I wouldn't expect officials to break up a fight after the game, I just think surely something could have been done to prevent it in the first place.
cheers,
tro
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 11:57am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jontheref View Post
I only do HS -- but besides the ejection, I am ending the game if it would have taken a second kneel down. You dont get a second bite at the apple. If that means I have to stand over the ball for a half minute reconfirming what down it is, then so be it.
Getting a new ball can sometimes take a while.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 12:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmc View Post
There is no rule, no interpretation, no intent anywhere that can, or should, be weasel worded to allow, or encourage, a player to engage in this type behavior. The consequences of such behavior are severe, as they well should be. It's our job to insure that the full weight of these consequences are enforced.
But what if there is no consequence to be enforced? Unless the school or the league the school plays in has some beyond-the-game consequence for such a player -- suspension, cleaning erasers, whatever -- nothing is to be gained by your pointing out the violation. Everyone who was still paying att'n to the game saw the cheap shot, so I don't see how your pointing it out could embarrass the player any further, and delaying the end of the game under such circumstances only increases the chance that things will really blow up. So unless you know that there's some beyond-game sanction that depends on your official report, just get out of there fast! And even if there is some such beyond-the-game sanction, you can give your report later, no need to stick around. If a rumble ensues, that's not your responsibility.

Robert
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 12:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trocared View Post
End of games, especially "highly spirited" ones can get a bit furry. I am reminded of a game my junior year in college against a bitter rival where they had no chance of winning and were going full tilt, trying to hurt someone. I believe there were two pf in that series. When the buzzer sounded, their whole sideline sprinted on the field and it was on.
The officials sprinted, just as fast, off the field, which I thought at the time was a bit odd.
As a player at the time, I thought it was cool, going after one another after the game. Now, as an official, I think I would have been greatly embarrassed if something like that would happen under my watch.
Surely I wouldn't expect officials to break up a fight after the game, I just think surely something could have been done to prevent it in the first place.
"Surely"? One team showed up to play, the other to injure. The only thing that could've prevented that would've been for one team not to be there.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 12:15pm
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I'm in a situation like Rich
If the O says they will take a knee - we relay it and the D is expected to sit back and wait.
If O pulls a play - USC unfair tactics
If D attacks - PF probable ejection
In this case definate ejection. We report all ejections on our game reports and the association deals out penalties, ususally 1-3 games, but this would probably have been either 3 or 5 games (depends on the player's history). We have also had a few year long and lifetime bans.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 01:19pm
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I should probably note that the LB'er DID wait till the ball was snapped. He didn't go for the ball or the center...he drilled the TE.

I did hear his statements and I did tell him they were kneeling a few times.

I also did throw my flag and we got together as a group to discuss the situation. I let my white hat know what happened and that I thought this situation deserved an ejection. As we talked it over, the AD and head coach came over to discuss it with us. We talked about it and it was determined (by the white hat) that nothing would come of it and the coach and AD would address it with the player.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 01:21pm
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I don't mean to be harsh but you should not have discussed this with the coach prior to making a final decision about the player. For all you know, the coach knew his player should've been ejected and was lobbying you to not eject him to keep him in next week's game.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 01:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe View Post
I don't mean to be harsh but you should not have discussed this with the coach prior to making a final decision about the player. For all you know, the coach knew his player should've been ejected and was lobbying you to not eject him to keep him in next week's game.
I will be harsh. It was WRONG for your white hat to allow the coach anywhere near the discussion. In Georgia, the mechanic is that one of the wings or back judge not involved in the discussion is responsible for standing between the coach and the huddle of officials, allowing them to step away and discuss enforcement properly and privately.

Based on what you've reported here, your white hat dropped the ball, and allowed a player to commit a premeditated, major, flagrant foul that could have caused severe injury with no consequences. Whether you've been and official for 23 years or 23 minutes, you should tell him so -- and ask him why he bothered to take the field if he wasn't going to enforce such a flagrant foul. Tell him to go sit in the stands -- he'll be just as useful there.

/vent mode off

Last edited by GoodScout; Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 01:32pm.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 01:41pm
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I agree, your WH was very wrong in how he handled this. Call the foul and administer the required penalty. In this case it should have been 15 yards and a DQ.

How the coach, AD, prinicipal, state and the kid's mother handle it is not our concern.

Secondly, there is no need to tell your WH that you think this requires an ejection. You tell your WH that you have ejected #99 and that's the end of the story. You're not asking some other official to eject him for you, you are ejecting him.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 03:08pm
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Friday we had a coach yell out that they were going to take a knee. We notified the defense. The QB didn't take the knee right away but backpedaled about 4 yds and then was moderately hit.

I don't like the fact that he didn't take the knee right away. I have to rethink this.

Any ideas?
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 03:28pm
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I don't like saying anything in these situations, but if I do say something, it's: "IF the quarterback takes a knee, you cannot hit him." So far, it's worked out OK.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 04:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrye22 View Post
I'm in a situation like Rich
If the O says they will take a knee - we relay it and the D is expected to sit back and wait.
If O pulls a play - USC unfair tactics
If D attacks - PF probable ejection
In this case definate ejection. We report all ejections on our game reports and the association deals out penalties, ususally 1-3 games, but this would probably have been either 3 or 5 games (depends on the player's history). We have also had a few year long and lifetime bans.
So if the Offense says they are going to take a knee, and then the offensive tackle blasts out and nails the defensive end, are you going with PF and probable ejection on the OT also? Or is it just the defensive players you nail for attacking in this situation? I ask because we had this happen in our game Friday night - the U tells all of my defensive players that The QB is taking a knee - all my defensive players relax somewhat, and then the tackle absolutely blasts my DE off his feet - and the U and White Hat said "He should have been prepared." When I asked them if they would have flagged the DE if it was reversed, they got kinda red-faced and said "Probably" and then left the field...
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 09:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrye22 View Post
If O pulls a play - USC unfair tactics
Under what rule?
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 09:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodScout View Post
I don't like saying anything in these situations, but if I do say something, it's: "IF the quarterback takes a knee, you cannot hit him." So far, it's worked out OK.
I like this approach. I use similar wording but the same exact message.

"If the ball carrier is down the play is over. Do not touch him." Then wait for a response.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 22, 2008, 09:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodScout View Post
I don't like saying anything in these situations, but if I do say something, it's: "IF the quarterback takes a knee, you cannot hit him." So far, it's worked out OK.
During a DI game the mics picked up an official yelling 'be smart, be smart' before what appeared to be an 'obvious' kneel down situation. It got the point across, and it showed the players that officials were watching and were keen to the situation.

Personally, I feel that announcing 'it's going to be a kneel down' presents many potential problems: 1. if the team does not kneel down, there is no rule broken here, A should not be penalized, yet they have gotten a 'free' play since the other team let their guard down at the official's request/command; 2. if A were to announce a kneel down, B lets off, and then A muffs the snap, B will likely not be ready at all to pick up the ball on the ground.
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