End of game - Dirty Play

[PSU213]

Originally Posted by GoodScout

I don't like saying anything in these situations, but if I do say something, it's: "IF the quarterback takes a knee, you cannot hit him." So far, it's worked out OK.

During a DI game the mics picked up an official yelling 'be smart, be smart' before what appeared to be an 'obvious' kneel down situation. It got the point across, and it showed the players that officials were watching and were keen to the situation.

Personally, I feel that announcing 'it's going to be a kneel down' presents many potential problems: 1. if the team does not kneel down, there is no rule broken here, A should not be penalized, yet they have gotten a 'free' play since the other team let their guard down at the official's request/command; 2. if A were to announce a kneel down, B lets off, and then A muffs the snap, B will likely not be ready at all to pick up the ball on the ground.

[jjrye22]

To point out again, the way we handle declared kneel downs is NOT by-the-book, but how we have been instructed to handle it, and all teams abide by it (as far as I have ever heard).

Rockyroad - Asked about an O-liner firing out after declaring a kneeldown - yes definate PF, probable ejection, same criteria as with the D

Walt - for the Unsportsman like. I guess we would file it under 9.2.3.c
If an obviously unfair act not specifically covered by the rules occurs
during the game
It is obviously unfair since they have declared they are giving up the 'right' to advance the ball and just want the clock to run down... Like I said, it is just how it is done here. I was also surprised like Rich when I saw it.

[falsecut]

Originally Posted by jjrye22

To point out again, the way we handle declared kneel downs is NOT by-the-book, but how we have been instructed to handle it, and all teams abide by it (as far as I have ever heard).


It is obviously unfair since they have declared they are giving up the 'right' to advance the ball and just want the clock to run down... Like I said, it is just how it is done here. I was also surprised like Rich when I saw it.

Saying you will take a knee and failing to do so, could be interpreted as an unfair act (under a very broad interpretation of the rules anyway). The easier way? You know those holding calls you don't enforce when they are away from the play? Somehow they become more noticible right now.

[hawkishowl20]

The “stay off the QB when on a knee” comment is smart. Does anyone protect the center? If A intends to take a knee, B could put 11 men over the center and end up knocking him into the QB legally, they do have some rights to disrupt the snap. “Be smart” covers this put is pretty vague. The ideal is the defense plays regularly (one player over the center) and the QB quickly kneels so the defense can let up before they really start. What would you flag if the defense shifted into this dangerous alignment over the center? UC? or Just stop play and tell them not to do this? Nothing, and allow danger to occur? The more you think about the kneel situation the more dangerous you realize it is.

[OverAndBack]

Recent game, A up 21, they announce their intent to take a knee.

I tell B, "They're taking a knee. IF they actually take a knee, stay off the quarterback." No complaints, no malicious statements or apparent intent on B's part to get revenge. No incident.

[ajmc]

There are few guarantees in life, and one size NEVER fits all. The question could be is it wiser to take some action that helps to minimize danger 99.9% of the time, because it may possibly contribute to that danger 0.01%?

That's a decision we each have to reconcile with.

[daggo66]

Originally Posted by hawkishowl20

The “stay off the QB when on a knee” comment is smart. Does anyone protect the center? If A intends to take a knee, B could put 11 men over the center and end up knocking him into the QB legally, they do have some rights to disrupt the snap. “Be smart” covers this put is pretty vague. The ideal is the defense plays regularly (one player over the center) and the QB quickly kneels so the defense can let up before they really start. What would you flag if the defense shifted into this dangerous alignment over the center? UC? or Just stop play and tell them not to do this? Nothing, and allow danger to occur? The more you think about the kneel situation the more dangerous you realize it is.

You are joking aren't you? 11 men lined up on the center? Dangerous alignment? In my 20 years of officiating I have come across some really kooky and idiotic coaches, but never one that would even imagine something like that. Are you somehow thinking the force of 11 players could all hit the center at once? I apologize for anything negative I may have said to you in that other thread. It is unthinkable that I would have argued with someone that is obviously so mentally challenged. I do commend you for being able to get on the internet and type words. If someone else is doing the typing for you please extend my apology to them as well.

[PSU213]

Originally Posted by hawkishowl20

The “stay off the QB when on a knee” comment is smart. Does anyone protect the center? If A intends to take a knee, B could put 11 men over the center and end up knocking him into the QB legally, they do have some rights to disrupt the snap. “Be smart” covers this put is pretty vague. The ideal is the defense plays regularly (one player over the center) and the QB quickly kneels so the defense can let up before they really start. What would you flag if the defense shifted into this dangerous alignment over the center? UC? or Just stop play and tell them not to do this? Nothing, and allow danger to occur? The more you think about the kneel situation the more dangerous you realize it is.

Yes, 'be smart' may be vague but it also prevents a situation where the defense is lulled into a sense of false security. As for the 11 defensive players lining up over the center...do they all line up single file right back from the snapper? In terms of protecting this player, if they knock him down on an kneel down, take a shot to the head, etc. it is a foul and potential ejection. The center does not get 'extra' protection on this play--the standard is pretty much the same for all players on this type of play.

[GoodScout]

Originally Posted by PSU213

If the play is designed to fool someone, make sure you aren't the fool.

I like that.

[PSU213]

Originally Posted by GoodScout

I like that.

Thanks. I was reading a article in an old Sports Illustrated (early 90's). College officials missed some calls at the end of a few games all in one day. So this was basically an article about the officials, and it featured quotes by some. This quote came from a then-Big Ten umpire. I do not remember his name, but I thought it was a good quote and some words to remember.

[jontheref]

One last thought as it relates to the coach that yells out and says we are taking a knee and then the QB takes 4 steps to kneel down. QB gets ball....blow the whistle kill the play. There is nothing good that is going to happen if we await the QB to come to his senses and get to his knee. Too many QBs watch too much tv---see the way the qb tries to kill an extra second and all heck breaks lose.

[waltjp]

I disagree. I'd no sooner do this than I'd signal a TD when the runner was at the 10-yard line with no defender within 20 yards of him. Make the players do what they're supposed to do.

[daggo66]

You can never assume they are going to do what they say they are going to do. I tell the defense that IF the QB takes a knee not to hit him. I ask the QB to step back from the center to take a knee, this allows him to be protected from the defense trying to crash the line. This should all happen quickly enough that any hits from the LB's would be a late hit. I remind everyone that the play is live and they need to protect themselves.

[michaelround]

I remember Marino "Faking the spike", instead throwing for a TD. I was surprised that did not fuel roughing the passer penalties against the defense in games to come to teach Marino a lesson.

The same is true with the QB taking a knee - if you assume they will because they say they will - and they don't, is there - should there - be a penalty assessed?