End of game - Dirty Play

[GoodScout]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I don't mean to be harsh but you should not have discussed this with the coach prior to making a final decision about the player. For all you know, the coach knew his player should've been ejected and was lobbying you to not eject him to keep him in next week's game.

I will be harsh. It was WRONG for your white hat to allow the coach anywhere near the discussion. In Georgia, the mechanic is that one of the wings or back judge not involved in the discussion is responsible for standing between the coach and the huddle of officials, allowing them to step away and discuss enforcement properly and privately.

Based on what you've reported here, your white hat dropped the ball, and allowed a player to commit a premeditated, major, flagrant foul that could have caused severe injury with no consequences. Whether you've been and official for 23 years or 23 minutes, you should tell him so -- and ask him why he bothered to take the field if he wasn't going to enforce such a flagrant foul. Tell him to go sit in the stands -- he'll be just as useful there.

/vent mode off

[Jim D]

I agree, your WH was very wrong in how he handled this. Call the foul and administer the required penalty. In this case it should have been 15 yards and a DQ.

How the coach, AD, prinicipal, state and the kid's mother handle it is not our concern.

Secondly, there is no need to tell your WH that you think this requires an ejection. You tell your WH that you have ejected #99 and that's the end of the story. You're not asking some other official to eject him for you, you are ejecting him.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Jim D

Secondly, there is no need to tell your WH that you think this requires an ejection. You tell your WH that you have ejected #99 and that's the end of the story. You're not asking some other official to eject him for you, you are ejecting him.

Doesn't the ref rule on all penalties? I don't know of any independent power any other official has in enforcement, and a DQ is a penalty.

[Mike L]

I always thought a really smart coach would have his QB on a knee when he takes the snap. So far I have yet to see that.
I'm wondering why would you not step in and try to prevent unnecessary crap going on with a declared kneel down situation? We do all sorts of stuff during the rest of the game to prevent injuries, escalating tension, etc. But for some reason all that goes out the window when the game is obviously over except for running a little bit of time off the clock?

[ajmc]

Take heart, MikeL, the norm at football fields all over this country is that competent officials take charge of "Take a knee" situations and 99+% of the time all works out as anticipated.

"What if" situations can be good mental exercises to help prepare for the unexpected, but when they are extended beyond any point of rational discussion, or practical application, they can easily become counter productive.

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by ajmc

...competent officials take charge of "Take a knee" situations...

Please describe how they take charge so we can be sure we are doing it correctly.

Thanks!

[ajmc]

Sorry Blue37, that's an answer you have to arrive at all by yourself. There have been many opinions as to how, and how not, to handle this type situation and you have to decide, for yourself, which way works for you, because you are the only one who will have to defend what you decide..

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Mike L

I always thought a really smart coach would have his QB on a knee when he takes the snap. So far I have yet to see that.

The whole act of a hand to hand snap is difficult to do; it takes some practice to get it down. Unless the QB and snapper are proficient at snapping with the QB being lower because his knee is on the ground then there is a much higher chance that the snap will be muffed.

[mikesears]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Doesn't the ref rule on all penalties? I don't know of any independent power any other official has in enforcement, and a DQ is a penalty.

Rule 2-16
ART. 6 . . . Game situations which produce results somewhat similar to pen -
alties, but which are not classified as fouls are: disqualification of a player, first touching of a kick by K and forfeiture of a game.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by mikesears

Rule 2-16
ART. 6 . . . Game situations which produce results somewhat similar to pen -
alties, but which are not classified as fouls are: disqualification of a player, first touching of a kick by K and forfeiture of a game.

That's Fed? Strange wording, to say a DQ is a "game situation" which produces a result similar to a penalty but is not a foul. Of course a DQ isn't a foul -- it's an administrative action, not something done by a participant! But it sure as hell is produced by a foul, and I'm pretty sure it's listed in places as "Penalty:...also disqualification of offending player."

What they probably meant to say was that a disqualif'n can't be declined and isn't offset by an opposing foul. Fed used to be a lot more careful about how they wrote their football rule book.

Robert

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Doesn't the ref rule on all penalties? I don't know of any independent power any other official has in enforcement, and a DQ is a penalty.

No that's not the case. DQ is a judgement call for the covering official just like every other call. For example, how could the WH decide whether a late hit out of bounds also merited a DQ when he wasn't able to see what happened on the play? The wing has to make the call on the late hit, and only he can decide if the shot also deserves a DQ.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Jim D

No that's not the case. DQ is a judgement call for the covering official just like every other call. For example, how could the WH decide whether a late hit out of bounds also merited a DQ when he wasn't able to see what happened on the play? The wing has to make the call on the late hit, and only he can decide if the shot also deserves a DQ.

Who actually administers the DQ? Can the wing just walk up to the player, say, "You're off for the game" or whatever, and write down the player's number? I don't think so. It's the official's judgement as to what happened, but unless things have changed radically, the wing has to explain that to the ref and the ref (or maybe the ump, I'm not up to date on this) actually administers the DQ.

Robert

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Who actually administers the DQ? Can the wing just walk up to the player, say, "You're off for the game" or whatever, and write down the player's number? I don't think so. It's the official's judgement as to what happened, but unless things have changed radically, the wing has to explain that to the ref and the ref (or maybe the ump, I'm not up to date on this) actually administers the DQ.

Robert

Yeah, that's pretty much how it happens. I tell the kid he's done for the night and then go in and tell the WH what I have already done so he can give the proper signal to the press box. I then go over to the sideline with the WH and explain to the coach what happened and that I ejected his player.

The referee's role in this is to give the signal. I've called the foul and I've disquailified the player.