San Diego/Denver

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I was, of course, livid and screaming at the TV (which is really stupid, I know). But a 5 year-old little girl could plainly see it was a fumble. Not to mention the Chargers getting screwed out of another blown call on the so-called "interception" that never happened, all because the stupid replay equipment wasn't working. That is the one that stopped SD's momentum right off the bat. It totally took them out of their rhythm and put them back on their heels.

As to the Hochuli call, I say the bottom line is; if the fumble had been called properly, the Chargers would have easily run out the clock, and the Donks wouldn't be celebrating their tainted victory. The Chargers were hosed and should be 1 and 1 instead of looking down the barrell at 0 and 2.

And if San Diego had made more plays during the game and prevented Denver from scoring any of the first 31 points they would have won. Or if they had stopped them on the next two plays or the two point conversion they would have one. The bad call definitely contributed to the loss but it wasn't the only reason they lost this game. I'm sure Hochuli made many fewer mistakes that contributed to this game than the players or coaches of the Chargers. It's just easy to blame the officials. I don't fault you for your passion though. That's why "fan" is short for "fanatic". The Chargers are still a very good team and will recover.

[Rich]

My favorite quote was this one:

Originally Posted by PlasticFace

Cowboys owner Jerry Jones wasn't surprised that Hochuli was involved.

"That particular official gets a lot of criticism. He's a highly criticized official in the NFL," Jones said.

Who the hell cares what PlasticFace thinks of Ed Hochuli? And since this was an AFC West game, why are his comments even relelvant?

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I was, of course, livid and screaming at the TV (which is really stupid, I know). But a 5 year-old little girl could plainly see it was a fumble.

Says the baseball guy.

Just sayin'.

So umpires are human, but football guys aren't?

[OverAndBack]

"That particular official gets a lot of criticism. He's a highly criticized official in the NFL," Jones said.

By whom? I'm sure the reporter didn't ask that followup.

Highly criticized enough to work two Super Bowls, I guess.

If only Jerry had some influence on the NFL. If only he was a powerful owner of a big team about to move into a billion dollar stadium. If only he was well-known, maybe he could rid the NFL of highly-criticized officials.

[vbzebra]

Just curious...this may have already been asked, or the answer may be obvious, so I apoligize in advance, but....

With Hochuli ruling the pass incomplete, why was the ball placed on the 10 "where the ball struck the ground"?

If i remember correctly, the line of scrimmage was inside the 10. if the pass was ruled incomplete, why not place the ball back at the original line of scrimmage for the next play? Not trying to be a smartie, just wondering.....

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by vbzebra

Just curious...this may have already been asked, or the answer may be obvious, so I apoligize in advance, but....

With Hochuli ruling the pass incomplete, why was the ball placed on the 10 "where the ball struck the ground"?

If i remember correctly, the line of scrimmage was inside the 10. if the pass was ruled incomplete, why not place the ball back at the original line of scrimmage for the next play? Not trying to be a smartie, just wondering.....

The play was ruled in inadvertent whistle. And since there was actually a fumble, the ball is placed where the ball was ruled dead. The place the ball was ruled dead was the 10 yard line.

Peace

[vbzebra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The play was ruled in inadvertent whistle. And since there was actually a fumble, the ball is placed where the ball was ruled dead. The place the ball was ruled dead was the 10 yard line.

Peace

Thanks!

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

...As to the Hochuli call, I say the bottom line is; if the fumble had been called properly, the Chargers would have easily run out the clock, and the Donks wouldn't be celebrating their tainted victory. The Chargers were hosed and should be 1 and 1 instead of looking down the barrell at 0 and 2.

Not quite THE bottom line. The real bottom line was if the SD defense hadn't been so porous on that final drive, they would have won the game. The Chargers put up only token resistance on that final drive.

The Bronco's final scoring drive started on their own 20. It was an almost 4 minute, 12 play drive. In the drive, the Chargers only twice held the Bronco's to a 3rd down (at the Denver 28 and again at the Chargers 10). In fact, of the 12 plays, only 4 were even from a 2nd down situation, whereas 5 were from 1st down. During the drive, Cutler completed 8 passes, counting the 2 point conversion, and had only 1 incomplete pass attempt. The Broncos won on a 2 point conversion throwing to the same receiver who scored the TD.

Yup, sure sounds like the courageous San Diego defense had that one stolen from 'em. Yup, sure did.

[JRutledge]

I really love the PTI show. I even love the commentary from Wilbon on the show. But at some point when are media people going to educate themselves about officiating matter.

Mike Pereira earlier today on "Outside the Lines" had an interview with Bob Ley. In that interview, Pereira made it clear that officials are downgraded for calls and situations where they make mistakes. And he said that this call could cost Ed Hoculli or any official a possible Super Bowl, playoff opportunity or their job if

Wilbon then goes on a rant about how the NFL is scapegoating Hoculli for this call. Instead it is clear that Wilbon does not realize that this is not a unique situation and this one call would never fire an official all by itself. And now the public thinks that the NFL just downgrades officials when they are really mad. Instead, part of the interview Pereira made it clear that every official is judged on every play. It just never ceases to amaze me how uneducated people that claim to have all the inside information, that they cannot talk to someone and get their facts straight. I am not a media member, and I know better than many of these guys. It only makes me wonder how much in their profession they know little about, but they write on these topics daily.

Peace

[SanDiegoSteve]

Well, everyone is piling on the Chargers fan here. I never said Hochuli wasn't human, I just said he cost the Chargers the game. Which he did. It wasn't the Chargers porous defense or any other "if" scenarios posted. The Chargers recovered what should have been a fumble. They shouldn't have been put in the situation to let Cutler get another chance to score and then go for two. That should have never occurred. What led up to the score being what it was is irrelevant. The call cost them the ball, and cost them the game because they would have easily ran out the clock. Game over.

And I'm not just some fan, I've refereed football and basketball in addition to all the baseball I've umpired. I've never made a call that horrible in my life in any sport, so stop trying to defend Hochuli as "being human." He's a human that cost the Chargers the game, and I'm not the only one who thinks so. Every sportscaster on ESPN seem to agree. What the defense did or didn't do earlier in the game all came down to a great play by the defense being overturned by a BAD CALL. Does San Diego need to improve on defense? Of course they do, but it isn't the reason they lost this one.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Well, everyone is piling on the Chargers fan here. I never said Hochuli wasn't human, I just said he cost the Chargers the game. Which he did. It wasn't the Chargers porous defense or any other "if" scenarios posted. The Chargers recovered what should have been a fumble. They shouldn't have been put in the situation to let Cutler get another chance to score and then go for two. That should have never occurred. What led up to the score being what it was is irrelevant. The call cost them the ball, and cost them the game because they would have easily ran out the clock. Game over.

I must have missed something. Did Hochuli not stop Denver on the 10? When Denver went for two, was Hochuli preventing the defense to make a play? There were a lot of events in that game, if Chargers do some things, they are never in that situation in the first place. I am sorry, Hochuli might have made a big mistake, but that mistake did not cost them the game. Just like I am a Cardinals fan and a certain umpire in 1985 did not cost them the World Series. There were a few more events that happen afterwards.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

And I'm not just some fan, I've refereed football and basketball in addition to all the baseball I've umpired. I've never made a call that horrible in my life in any sport, so stop trying to defend Hochuli as "being human." He's a human that cost the Chargers the game, and I'm not the only one who thinks so. Every sportscaster on ESPN seem to agree. What the defense did or didn't do earlier in the game all came down to a great play by the defense being overturned by a BAD CALL. Does San Diego need to improve on defense? Of course they do, but it isn't the reason they lost this one.

Just because you have done those things does not make you right either. Hochuli made a mistake and without the replay I bet more here have made a similar mistake. And if you make everything about one play, then how did Denver get in that situation. I thought Denver had one big time 4th Quarter and if SD defends better, they win the game running away. Sorry it is not about defending Hochuli at all. Unless that was the last play of the game, there were other reasons they lost the game. Sorry, it just is.

Peace

[Mike L]

Apparently the official in question feels differently than most. And that's why I respect him so much, he realizes what we do does affect outcomes of games and can be one of the contributing factors to a team losing or winning despite all the excuses of other things that happened.(the bold is my highlite).

"I'm getting hundreds of emails – hate mail – but I'm responding to it all. People deserve a response.
You can rest assured that nothing anyone can say can make me feel worse than I already feel about my mistake on the fumble play. You have no idea ...
Affecting the outcome of a game is a devastating feeling. Officials strive for perfection – I failed miserably. Although it does no good to say it, I am very, very sorry."
Ed Hochuli

[JRutledge]

There is a big difference in affecting the outcome and being the cause of the outcome.

Peace

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I really love the PTI show. I even love the commentary from Wilbon on the show. But at some point when are media people going to educate themselves about officiating matter.

Mike Pereira earlier today on "Outside the Lines" had an interview with Bob Ley. In that interview, Pereira made it clear that officials are downgraded for calls and situations where they make mistakes. And he said that this call could cost Ed Hoculli or any official a possible Super Bowl, playoff opportunity or their job if

Wilbon then goes on a rant about how the NFL is scapegoating Hoculli for this call. Instead it is clear that Wilbon does not realize that this is not a unique situation and this one call would never fire an official all by itself. And now the public thinks that the NFL just downgrades officials when they are really mad. Instead, part of the interview Pereira made it clear that every official is judged on every play. It just never ceases to amaze me how uneducated people that claim to have all the inside information, that they cannot talk to someone and get their facts straight. I am not a media member, and I know better than many of these guys. It only makes me wonder how much in their profession they know little about, but they write on these topics daily.

Peace

You are 100% correct, Jeff.

It's amazing to me that some in the media are either reacting as Wilbon (apparently) did or as if they've just today come to this realization that there are repercussions for NFL Officials who make mistakes.

Of course there are repercussions. There are always repercussions, and always have been. This is not new. Did Phil Luckett get downgraded? You bet? So do most officials in most games unless they call the Perfect Game. They're just not all as obvious as this one. No one calls to ask Pereira if the side judge from a Kansas City/Tennessee game got downgraded for missing a call.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Well, everyone is piling on the Chargers fan here. I never said Hochuli wasn't human, I just said he cost the Chargers the game. Which he did. It wasn't the Chargers porous defense or any other "if" scenarios posted.

Actually, it was all of those things. In combination.

But fanboys like things nice and uncomplicated so they pick on the one thing that doesn't require them to admit that their team did anything wrong or contributed to the outcome in any way.

YES, if that call is correct, it's very likely San Diego's win. And you could say that about any one of the multitude of other things that occured in that game as they do in every game.

"The inches we need....are all around us. They're in every break of the game, every minute, every second."

And I'm not just some fan, I've refereed football and basketball in addition to all the baseball I've umpired. I've never made a call that horrible in my life in any sport,

You are truly blessed, then. Hossanah in the highest.

Very few of us have ever had the opportunity to make such a horrible call on that big a stage, either.

I daresay I would hope we'd all handle it with the same aplomb that Ed Hochuli has. I doubt we all would.

so stop trying to defend Hochuli as "being human." He's a human that cost the Chargers the game

String him up!

Seriously - if the weekly fortunes of 53 guys you've never met affects your mood for more than about 15 minutes one way or the other, you have issues.

My God, he cost my team a game! How will I ever recover? It's not fair, dammit!

Every sportscaster on ESPN seem to agree.

And if there was ever a QED, that's it, I guess.

What the defense did or didn't do earlier in the game all came down to a great play by the defense being overturned by a BAD CALL. Does San Diego need to improve on defense? Of course they do, but it isn't the reason they lost this one.

It's a reason. Along with many others. This is just the easiest target. For you and other fanboys.