Offensive Pass Interference on 4th Down

[Simbio]

Federation Rules.

With 6 minutes left in the 4th quarter, A has the ball 4 and 10 from the B35 yard line. A80 commits offensive pass interference in the endzone then catches the ball in the endzone for an apparent score. What is the ruling?

[Welpe]

In Federation rules, Offensive Pass Interference is a 15 yard penalty and a loss of down, enforced from the previous spot. The penalty in this play would result in 1st and 10 for B at the 50 and the touchdown is obviously negated.

[Simbio]

I agree, and that's how our crew enforced it yesterday, however, one of our fellow officials disagreed with us today, and I thought it would put it out there for discussion to see if anyone would have anything different.

Simbio

[Welpe]

Out of curiosity, how did he think it should have been enforced?

[Simbio]

His statement was that of the football fundamental "No penalty causes loss of ball."

[Welpe]

Interesting argument but technically, I don't think it is the foul that directly caused the ball the be lost. The foul only specifies that the offense loses a down, so A lost the football because they turned it over on downs, not because they committed a penalty.

I think what the fundamental is saying is that no foul can directly award possesion of the football to the other team but I could be wrong.

[bucblue]

The fundamental:I - 7 "No foul causes loss of the ball." Also stated in definitions under Section 16 - Fouls and Penalties - Art 3: "No foul causes loss of the ball." What they do lose is the 15 yards, and the right to replay the down. Since it was fourth down and they didn't make the line to gain, they turn the ball over on downs.

[mikesears]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Interesting argument but technically, I don't think it is the foul that directly caused the ball the be lost. The foul only specifies that the offense loses a down, so A lost the football because they turned it over on downs, not because they committed a penalty.

I think what the fundamental is saying is that no foul can directly award possesion of the football to the other team but I could be wrong.

This is correct and how it is interpretted.

[refbuz]

Originally Posted by Simbio

His statement was that of the football fundamental "No penalty causes loss of ball."

"Loss of down" only means that A to loses the right to replay the down. They still need to make the line to gain after the penalty is administered. In your scenario, they did not make the line to gain after enforcement of the penalty, so A loses the ball on downs. It is not the foul itself that causes the turnover.

Here's a similar scenario that involves a penalty and LOD...

4th & 5 @ A30. A5 Runs for 10 yards and throws and Illegal Forward Pass @ 40.

After the enforcement of the penalty, A still makes the line to gain. It is 1st & 10 for A @ A35, not 2nd & 10. A doesn't lose an actual down in the series.

[Simbio]

Thank you everyone for responding. You all reinforced our correct call on the field.

Simbio

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Interesting argument but technically, I don't think it is the foul that directly caused the ball the be lost. The foul only specifies that the offense loses a down, so A lost the football because they turned it over on downs, not because they committed a penalty.

I think what the fundamental is saying is that no foul can directly award possesion of the football to the other team but I could be wrong.

Very well said! You are correct in your thinking.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by refbuz

"Loss of down" only means that A to loses the right to replay the down. They still need to make the line to gain after the penalty is administered. In your scenario, they did not make the line to gain after enforcement of the penalty, so A loses the ball on downs. It is not the foul itself that causes the turnover.

Here's a similar scenario that involves a penalty and LOD...

4th & 5 @ A30. A5 Runs for 10 yards and throws and Illegal Forward Pass @ 40.

After the enforcement of the penalty, A still makes the line to gain. It is 1st & 10 for A @ A35, not 2nd & 10. A doesn't lose an actual down in the series.

This is a very good example showing how the LOD works.

So..... LOD isn't really LOD; it is LORTRTD?

Originally Posted by Simbio

Federation Rules.

With 6 minutes left in the 4th quarter, A has the ball 4 and 10 from the B35 yard line. A80 commits offensive pass interference in the endzone then catches the ball in the endzone for an apparent score. What is the ruling?

We had the exact same sit twice this year. One was on a 4th down play, and the other was on a 2-point conversion. Both times, they were committed by the team that had a considerable lead. Incredible how it can happen at those times.

[NorthernAZRef]

That's funny, I had the exact same sitch this past week as well. Coach wanted the down replayed and as WH I went and explained that the loss of down awarded the ball over to B. He didn't get it, but didn't surprise me because before the game in the conference he asked me if it was legal to dropkick or chop block down field. Had to laugh about that.

[MadCityRef]

Wow, we had it on Friday too!!
Had to slap my crew around to wake them up for the enforcement.