Hmmm..........what do you think?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by parepat

This might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If I am are not sure I can pull out the rule book. You can not. Enough said .

You refuse to see the big picture. Nothing we can do about that, I suppose.

But I will say this - the first time you pull out the rulebook on the field, you will hear a relentless never-ending litany of arguments about the rules from both sidelines. Do you really want this?

Yes - we on rare occasions make mistakes ... but to pull out the book every time we have a question DURING a game opens up a huge mess that you really don't want any part of.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

You refuse to see the big picture. Nothing we can do about that, I suppose.

But I will say this - the first time you pull out the rulebook on the field, you will hear a relentless never-ending litany of arguments about the rules from both sidelines. Do you really want this?

Yes - we on rare occasions make mistakes ... but to pull out the book every time we have a question DURING a game opens up a huge mess that you really don't want any part of.

The big picture is simply that you and those like you have an ego that overshadows the reason why you are out there.

Unlike you, I HAVE been in a game where we pulled out the book. Guess what, NONE of the things you described occured.

No one ever said that you pull out the book "everytime we have a question".

It simply doesn't happen.

I understand that you are confident in your rules knowledge, as am I. However, there will come a time at some point where both of us would benefit from access to the rule or case book. In those occassions it is my opinion that I would swallow my pride, go to the book and get the call right.

You and others like you feel that the harm of this outweighs the need to get the call right. I get it. I don't agree with it but I get it.

[Sonofanump]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I think this state should rename themselves Oiho - because they're thinking backwards!

I think that the head of our officials knows what he is doing.
If not, I don't think that he would be in the Big Ten.

My crew has a simple solution to questions from coaches who don't "believe" us on a rule. After the game, if the coach approaches us, my white hat will meet the coach near the locker rooms, hand him a business card, and ask that he email with the question and then we'll get back to him (the coach) with a response with the rule references, etc. We've only had to do this once a year, if even that. This year, we had to pacify a coach who thought that ANY contact with the head was illegal (this was after his quarterback got sacked while crouching down to absorb the blow and the defender was on top of him in such a way his arms were wrapped around the QB's head as they were going down).

[buckrog64]

One thing I do have on the field with me is a laminated card from the rule book which has a list of all the penalties and yardages, LOD, AFD, etc. That has come in handy more than a time or two, I'm glad (and sorry) to say.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by parepat

This might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. .

I agree!
It was a long winded way to say rule books do not belong on the field. Period!

Originally Posted by parepat

If I am are not sure I can pull out the rule book. You can not. Enough said .

I disagree
I can pull out the rule book if I had it with me and so chose, I simply choose not to open pandoras box.

Some officials choose to talk to assistants as if they were the HC, others do not. Some officials will engage sideline spectators, others choose not to. Some officials keep the whisle in their mouth, others choose not to. Some officials look up rules during the game, others choose not to.

[ohioref]

let me get this right. you officials who oppose getting out rule book, would rather be wrong , instead of making the right call!!! all because your pride stands in your way. i thought taht the main objetive of officiating was to get the call right!! and to be fair to all involed!! glad you people on NOT on my crew!!!

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by ohioref

let me get this right. you officials who oppose getting out rule book, would rather be wrong , instead of making the right call!!!

When you KNOW that you're right and the HC questions you, do you pull out the rule book to prove it?

I expect the answer to be no

Do you think it's possible to be confident in a rules app and yet be wrong?

How about when you think you KNOW but in reality you're wrong? It's the same as above you don't pull out the book because you have no doubt you're right, but sadly you're wrong. How does this sitch get resolved?
The only way to resolve this is too pull the book every time the HC disagrees just to make sure.
Since getting the call right seems to be your first and only priority, it seems that checking the book each time the HC questions you would be the prudent thing to do.

Is that your MO or is your threshold dependant upon how loud the HC yells?

If you have a slight mis giving about a rule or app but neither bench complains do you go to the book anyway? Or is it OK to mis apply a rule as long as no one knows?

Once you open the book on the field you're on the slope and it gets quite slippery very quickly.
To be frank, I don't know how you can justify not going to the book for every rule and app.

[Jim D]

A lot of the plays involve multiple rules, defenitions, case book plays and misc. items from Reddings, the state, etc. so proving something to a coach could really be a problem.

Secondly, it's one thing to know the rules and then another to be able to quickly find the appropriate place in the book while some coach is arguing with you.

Finally, even with the rule book in front of them, I don't know that they would listen. I had a coach Friday that insisted a USC could be carried over to the kick off. He kept telling me that it was a point of emphasis this year and I was wrong. Because he was so sure he knew the rule and of the way 8-2-2 is written, I'm not sure even a rule book in front of me I would have been able to convince him in a reasonable amount of time.

[BuckeyeRef]

Once you open the book on the field you're on the slope and it gets quite slippery very quickly.
To be frank, I don't know how you can justify not going to the book for every rule and app.[/QUOTE]


Everyone keeps making this claim, but ignores the reality of this claim. I have been doing games for nine years in Ohio. Only one time in nine years have we had to refer toa book. That was during a coaches requested conference with the referee. After that, there was no request to check the book on every play or every call. There has been no "slippery slope". Ohio has been bringing the books on the field for over a decade now and there has been no problem. No repeated requests to check the book. Like I said, in my nine years we've only used the book one time.

[ohioref]

in ohio the hc has the right to ask if we misinterpeted a rule. he must do it before the next snap. if we are wrong, we change our ruling ,and inform the other coach. if we are correct, the hc is charged a to. if none remain ,a delay of game penalty is called. so if we do not grant the request, we are now violating the rules!!

[Mike L]

Just what is the Ohio procedure for book review? (too expensive to get video review I suppose). Does the coach have to just complain about the call or does he have to call for a conference and maybe risk a timeout? Is it just the head coach or any assitant as well? What if you're sure but the coach still complains, do you have to go to the book to prove you're right? And if you don't, how is that really any different than not even having the book? And like CO Ump said, what if there is disagreement amoung the officials but the coaches are clueless? Do you go to the book or just slip it by them? Does it take only 1 official to question or at least a tie in the "vote"? Or is it just left up to the referee to decide one way or the other?
I can understand the good intentions of getting the ruling right, but this is just such an unprofessional way to go about it and opens the crew up to so much crap I would think it would create many more problems than it could solve.
PS - I would hope my 747 pilot already knows how to start up engines rather than trying to open up a book while struggling to keep an unstable aircraft from falling out of the sky. I guess the same could be said for officials knowing the rules, huh?

PSS-it appears some of this may have been answered while I was typing away.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by ohioref

in ohio the hc has the right to ask if we misinterpeted a rule.

Do you pull out the book every time he asks?

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by CO ump

Do you pull out the book every time he asks?

It sounds like Ohio has instituted it's own version of the "coach's challenge", except he can do it as many times as he feels like (as long as he's willing to risk the 5 yard penalty).
I can think of a couple coaches around these parts that would make that little idea such a pleasure.

[Sonofanump]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Just what is the Ohio procedure for book review?
Is it just the head coach or any assitant as well?
And like CO Ump said, what if there is disagreement amoung the officials but the coaches are clueless?

Head Coach must call a TO, if none risk delay of game foul.

I only speak to head coaches.

The man with the white hat is in charge of our crew.



I still don’t know what rules 3.5.2.c and 3.5.11 means to everyone else?