Hmmm..........what do you think?

[RMR]

Originally Posted by Sonofanump

So if the coach uses a time out to discuss a rule interp, your linesman does not bring the rule book on the field?

We had a coach not believe us on 7.1.7.b last Friday night, showed him at half, but what if he request it during the game using a TO?

Just ask him to show it to you in his copy. End of discussion.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by johnSandlin

Has anyone ever left the field or stopped the game for the purpose of getting the rulebook out? (talking high school, not weekend tournaments like baseball where rules are altered) t

No, and I never will. It looks really silly doing such a thing.

Peace

[Jim D]

I like Missouri's system (although I've never seen it used). If a coach, after discussing the rule with the officials during a time out, still disagrees with the rule interpretation he can protest the game. When he does, both teams are sent to the bench and the coach has ten minutes to review the rule with the officials with the use of a rule book, which the coach is responsible to provide. The officials are instructed to help the coach find the appropriate rule and interpretation in the book. If, after 10 minutes, the coach hasn't proven his point and convinced the officials to change the ruling, the protest is denied and the game continues.

[drh898]

Wow, how long must games be in Missouri. Of course, Missouri is the "show me" state.

[bigjohn]

In Ohio the linesman is REQUIRED to bring the rule and case books onto the field. The chain crew holds onto it.

Pretty sure that one gets ignored on a regular basis. I asked a linesman to check his casebook on the rule about Low blocks in shotgun formation. He didn't have one, even to look at in the locker room at halftime.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

In Ohio the linesman is REQUIRED to bring the rule and case books onto the field. The chain crew holds onto it.

Pretty sure that one gets ignored on a regular basis. I asked a linesman to check his casebook on the rule about Low blocks in shotgun formation. He didn't have one, even to look at in the locker room at halftime.

I think this state should rename themselves Oiho - because they're thinking backwards!

Leave the damn book in the locker room!

Seriously - I wonder if something happened that the SA figured the way to show progress was to bring the book to the sideline. Perhaps a ruling was made in a state final where the crew didn't know the correct ruling.

[parepat]

hypothetical situation:

You walk onto a plane and you see the pilot reading "Flying 747's for Dummies"
You might think "this guy doesn't know what he's doing".

Three hours later the right engine goes out. The pilot pulls out the manual and restarts the engine. You think "thank god he had the manual".

My point is I have never met another official who has not misapplied a rule. If you haven't you are either a) a liar or b) a sure shot for the NFL.

As previously stated the rule book is not for the coach it is for the official's reference. You don't need to pull it out to prove anything. The only time an official would need to bring it out is if he was unsure about a rule. To be honest, I don't think that the coach's know that we have it.

To those of you that say "know the rules". No joke. If you never need it what have you lost. If you do need it, it's there.

To those with the "because I said so " attitude, you are part of the reason coaches hate and do not respect us.

[Sonofanump]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I think this state should rename themselves Oiho - because they're thinking backwards!

I think that the head of our officials knows what he is doing.
If not, I don't think that he would be in the Big Ten.

My crew has a simple solution to questions from coaches who don't "believe" us on a rule. After the game, if the coach approaches us, my white hat will meet the coach near the locker rooms, hand him a business card, and ask that he email with the question and then we'll get back to him (the coach) with a response with the rule references, etc. We've only had to do this once a year, if even that. This year, we had to pacify a coach who thought that ANY contact with the head was illegal (this was after his quarterback got sacked while crouching down to absorb the blow and the defender was on top of him in such a way his arms were wrapped around the QB's head as they were going down).

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Sonofanump

I think that the head of our officials knows what he is doing.
If not, I don't think that he would be in the Big Ten.

Does the NFL have a rule book at the sides?
Does the CFL have a rule book at the sides?
Does the AFL have a rule book at the sides?
Does the Pac10 have a rule book at the sides?
Does the SEC have a rule book at the sides?
Does the Big10 have a rule book at the sides?
Does the Big12 have a rule book at the sides?
Does the ACC have a rule book at the sides?
Does the MAC have a rule book at the sides?
Does NY have a rule book at the sides?
MA?
PA?
TX?
CA?
Of the 50 states, how many mandate a rule book at the sides?
I bet Oiho might be the only state. I don't care what your Big10 ref says.... he still ****s every day like I do.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by johnSandlin

This happened this past Friday back in my home area of Michigan.

Here is the situation:

Team A (home team) is trailing 25-22 with :57.1 to go in regulation. Team A does a pooch on side kick (according to the newspaper article). Team A recovers the ball.

However, Team B (visiting team and winning at the time) is given possession of the ball because the kick did not hit the ground.

Team A is miffed to say the least. According to the paper, the head referee (assuming the white hat) goes and gets his rulebook, brings out to the field, shows and explains the rule to Team A's coach.

Team A ends up losing 25-22.

Has anyone ever left the field or stopped the game for the purpose of getting the rulebook out? (talking high school, not weekend tournaments like baseball where rules are altered) t

I thought the only way you could conclusively apply 3-5-2c is with a rule book. Without a rule book it becomes coach versus referee, with the book all doubt is removed.

My crew toolbag has a rule and case book and the athletic association has in their handbook that we MUST have them available for consultation. Have only used it once and not for good reason.

As for the rule on kickoffs, 6-1-5 requires the kick to go 10 yards and it must touch the ground. Kickers are mastering the art of kicking downward so the ball touches the ground and then goes the requisite 10 yards as the two requirements can be in either order.

[ohioref]

let me get this right. you officials who oppose getting out rule book, would rather be wrong , instead of making the right call!!! all because your pride stands in your way. i thought taht the main objetive of officiating was to get the call right!! and to be fair to all involed!! glad you people on NOT on my crew!!!

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by ohioref

let me get this right. you officials who oppose getting out rule book, would rather be wrong , instead of making the right call!!!

When you KNOW that you're right and the HC questions you, do you pull out the rule book to prove it?

I expect the answer to be no

Do you think it's possible to be confident in a rules app and yet be wrong?

How about when you think you KNOW but in reality you're wrong? It's the same as above you don't pull out the book because you have no doubt you're right, but sadly you're wrong. How does this sitch get resolved?
The only way to resolve this is too pull the book every time the HC disagrees just to make sure.
Since getting the call right seems to be your first and only priority, it seems that checking the book each time the HC questions you would be the prudent thing to do.

Is that your MO or is your threshold dependant upon how loud the HC yells?

If you have a slight mis giving about a rule or app but neither bench complains do you go to the book anyway? Or is it OK to mis apply a rule as long as no one knows?

Once you open the book on the field you're on the slope and it gets quite slippery very quickly.
To be frank, I don't know how you can justify not going to the book for every rule and app.

[Jim D]

A lot of the plays involve multiple rules, defenitions, case book plays and misc. items from Reddings, the state, etc. so proving something to a coach could really be a problem.

Secondly, it's one thing to know the rules and then another to be able to quickly find the appropriate place in the book while some coach is arguing with you.

Finally, even with the rule book in front of them, I don't know that they would listen. I had a coach Friday that insisted a USC could be carried over to the kick off. He kept telling me that it was a point of emphasis this year and I was wrong. Because he was so sure he knew the rule and of the way 8-2-2 is written, I'm not sure even a rule book in front of me I would have been able to convince him in a reasonable amount of time.

[ohioref]

in ohio the hc has the right to ask if we misinterpeted a rule. he must do it before the next snap. if we are wrong, we change our ruling ,and inform the other coach. if we are correct, the hc is charged a to. if none remain ,a delay of game penalty is called. so if we do not grant the request, we are now violating the rules!!