Hmmm..........what do you think?

[Bob M.]

REPLY: If knowing that I can make a ruling on the field with 99.9% confidence that I have it right is ego, then I'm guilty. The problem with having a rule book on my hip is two-fold: (1) As soon as I open it, every situation from that point forward has the potential for being met with a "Look it up, Blue" or "You're gonna have to show that to me, Ref." Anyone ever heard of Pandora's Box?? and (2) As soon as you open the book on the field, your credibility for being able to properly control and administer the game goes right down the toilet.

If that's what Ohio says you should do, by all means do it. But I'd rather rely on committing the rules to memory. Not to be able to recite Rule-Section-Article out on the field, but being able to tell the coach that you're sure of your ruling with the promise to show it to him in the book after the game.

[Sonofanump]

Originally Posted by txrefcshou

What if he requested lobster and wine?

I checked, did not see anything about that under rule 3.5.2.c or 3.5.11. Maybe you have a different rule book than I have. Mine has 3.5 starting on page 43 and ending on page 45.

[w_sohl]

Originally Posted by cougar729

Kinda depends.

The kick must go 10 yards and touch the ground before A can recover and gain possession

I do the same thing on occasion and not give everything in a rule. You are partially correct, K (or A) can recover before either of those things happens if R (or B) touches the ball first.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by parepat

I could not disagree more.

What are you afraid of? In Ohio the linesman is REQUIRED to bring the rule and case books onto the field. The chain crew holds onto it. If WE need to refer to it, it is available. The purpose is not to satisfy a coach, but as a reference for us. We have needed to go the books once in 13 years.

Am I to understand that if you were faced with a situation where you misinterpreted a rule, the coach calls for a conference you feel it isn't appropriate to check on a rule. What are we worried about, getting the call right or your ego. Give me a break!

If you do it in Ohio, it makes it correct.....in Ohio. The rest of us can continue to think it's a stupid thing to bring to the field.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: If knowing that I can make a ruling on the field with 99.9% confidence that I have it right is ego, then I'm guilty. The problem with having a rule book on my hip is two-fold: (1) As soon as I open it, every situation from that point forward has the potential for being met with a "Look it up, Blue" or "You're gonna have to show that to me, Ref." Anyone ever heard of Pandora's Box?? and (2) As soon as you open the book on the field, your credibility for being able to properly control and administer the game goes right down the toilet.

If that's what Ohio says you should do, by all means do it. But I'd rather rely on committing the rules to memory. Not to be able to recite Rule-Section-Article out on the field, but being able to tell the coach that you're sure of your ruling with the promise to show it to him in the book after the game.

1. As I said, we are required to have it on the field and miraculously we don't have either of the problems that you describe.

2. Having an independant understanding of the rules and having the rule books on the field are not mutually exclusive. You can have both.

3. Assuming there is a rule that you don't know for sure (if you can imagine that) having the self confidence to go to the book ensures the correct call.

4. I liken it to carrying a condom...Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

5. It is not about US. Get the call right.

[Sonofanump]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

If you do it in Ohio, it makes it correct.....in Ohio. The rest of us can continue to think it's a stupid thing to bring to the field.

So how do other states handle rule 3.5.2.c? Does the coach request a Time Out to review the rule, you say ok, go over to him and say, "I’m right, your wrong, you have two time outs left, second down".

[txrefcshou]

Originally Posted by CO ump

The trouble is you don't know what you don't know and during the game isn't the time to figure it out.
Rule books are for bathrooms and clinics. Neither I nor the coach will ever have a rule book on the field(at least not for long)

In a very practical sense, the consequences of pulling out a rule book in the middle of a game outweigh the consequences of a misinterpretation.

Greatness, the bathroom is where I keep mine too.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Sonofanump

So how do other states handle rule 3.5.2.c? Does the coach request a Time Out to review the rule, you say ok, go over to him and say, "I’m right, your wrong, you have two time outs left, second down".

Absolutely.

He is the coach. *I* am the referee. I'll listen and if there's been a mistake, we'll correct it.

If he's incorrect, he gets charged with a timeout and life goes on. But I get to decide that.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by cougar729

Kinda depends.

The kick must go 10 yards and touch the ground before A can recover and gain possession

When you say "touch the ground", do you mean touch the ground after it has gone 10 yards, or touch the ground any time after it has been kicked?

[golfnref]

Originally Posted by bossman72

When you say "touch the ground", do you mean touch the ground after it has gone 10 yards, or touch the ground any time after it has been kicked?

"go 10 yards and touch the ground" in that order. Or put another way, "after
the ball has gone ten yards and then touched the ground, K may recover and keep possession. And as previously stated, if R touches the ball before it goes 10 yards, K may then legally recover.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by parepat

...4. I liken it to carrying a condom...Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

REPLY: I hope Ohio doesn't require you to bring one of those onto the field as well!

I guess we'll just need to philosophically disagree.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by golfnref

"go 10 yards and touch the ground" in that order. Or put another way, "after
the ball has gone ten yards and then touched the ground, K may recover and keep possession. And as previously stated, if R touches the ball before it goes 10 yards, K may then legally recover.

I'm pretty sure you're incorrect. It doesn't have to be in that order - it can hit the ground immediately, or at 5, or 8 yards, and then be recovered in the air after 10 yards. It doesn't necessarily have to touch ground AFTER it goes 10.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: mbcrowder is correct. The two requirements (hit the ground, and go ten yards) may occur in either order. All that's required is that both occur. That's why the newest onside kick technique is for the kicker to kick the top of the teed-up ball, have it hit the ground immediately off the tee and then pop up for a 'jump ball' just beyond R's restraining line.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: mbcrowder is correct. The two requirements (hit the ground, and go ten yards) may occur in either order. All that's required is that both occur. That's why the newest onside kick technique is for the kicker to kick the top of the teed-up ball, have it hit the ground immediately off the tee and then pop up for a 'jump ball' just beyond R's restraining line.

That's a great onsides kick technique too because R cannot fair catch it either since it hit the ground.

[Jim D]

I like Missouri's system (although I've never seen it used). If a coach, after discussing the rule with the officials during a time out, still disagrees with the rule interpretation he can protest the game. When he does, both teams are sent to the bench and the coach has ten minutes to review the rule with the officials with the use of a rule book, which the coach is responsible to provide. The officials are instructed to help the coach find the appropriate rule and interpretation in the book. If, after 10 minutes, the coach hasn't proven his point and convinced the officials to change the ruling, the protest is denied and the game continues.