Passes while in punt formation question--

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Personally, I take the term "initial position" to mean just that, the initial position assumed prior to shifts/motions.

How far would you take that? Suppose they lined up:

..............50.........51.........52...........5 3...........80.............54
........46........47.....................48....... ......................49

and #10 ten yards behind the snapper. And then they shifted into:

......46.....50..........51.........52.....48..... 53..........80
.....................47........................... ........................49.....54

with #10 still ten yards behind the snapper. The way they first lined up was an illegal formation just for not having 7 on the line, although they did have five numbered 50-79. Does 80 become eligible after the shift, or does the way they lined up first "not count" as "initial position" because they couldn't've legally snapped the ball from it?

Robert

[Warrenkicker]

Your initial formation is not using the numbering exception. The numbering exception has nothing to do with having a legal formation as to 7 on the line, it only takes effect when there are fewer than 5 50-79 players in a scrimmage kick formation. Those requirements were met in the initial formation. After the shift 80 was uncovered and became eligible and the number exception went into effect. If K shifts again and the numbering exception is still being used then, say 48 moves back and 49 moves up, then 48 still isn't eligible. But if 49 moves up I would say that 80 just became ineligible.

[Mike L]

Robert,
Pretty much what Warrenkicker said. Your first formation does not involve the numberig exception. You have the 5 players you need on the line, so none of the rules regarding numbering exeption apply. Any additional "problems" do not necessarily effect this rule.
Now then, after your shift, numbering exception does apply and for the purpose of that rule, this is the "initial position". No matter what they do after this point, 48 cannot become eligible.