Safety on a try

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by The Roamin' Umpire

..., and A is still kicking off next.*



* - Yes, I know B could theoretically decide to kickoff. No need to confuse the issue. :P

I assume this reply was for NFHS. A few years ago NCAA had an option to where the Team that was scored upon could choose who next kicked off but that option was removed.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by Sooner75

May I have a rule reference or case book reference on this particuliar play please? Thank you.

REPLY: A similar (but not exact) Federation case play is 8.3.3. It incorporates the concept of a new force by B where the ball becomes dead in B's endzone with B in possession.

[Texas Aggie]

The kick is blocked and recovered and advanced by Team B 90 yards where a Team A player strips the ball and recovers the ball on the bounce. He then tries to avoid the B player and runs into his own end zone where he is tackled.

Like I said, quite an imagination.

I'll tell you what is more likely to occur: (NCAA) the try is blocked (or fumbled/intercepted) and run back and fumbled from the field of play into the end zone and out.

Mechanic question: do you give the touchback signal or just the no good (incomplete) signal? It is, after all, both.

[Warrenkicker]

I say you give the "no good" signal as it really isn't a touchback for any practical purpose in the game. The try failed and thus we move on to the kickoff. We don't go straight to the 20 for the next scrimmage play.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

I assume this reply was for NFHS. A few years ago NCAA had an option to where the Team that was scored upon could choose who next kicked off but that option was removed.

REPLY: That rule still exists in Fed, but I've never seen it exercised. Actually, one official in the area used to ask whether the scored-upon team wanted to kickoff or receive after the try...got some mighty strange looks I've heard.

[Texas Aggie]

If a team is trying to come back and is pretty good at picking up onside kicks, the scored upon team MAY feel better about their chances by kicking off -- especially if they have a kicker that can get it in or out of the end zone and there's only time for one or two plays.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: That rule still exists in Fed, but I've never seen it exercised. Actually, one official in the area used to ask whether the scored-upon team wanted to kickoff or receive after the try...got some mighty strange looks I've heard.

Go back far enough and it wasn't uncommon to choose to kick off. I did see that in a CFL game televised to the USA during an NFL strike, when a team with a considerable lead had already been burned once via the onside kickoff and so chose to kick off themselves as a preventative. Of course that's when they were still kicking off from the 45. The onside kickoff is more of an attacking threat in Canadian than American football for several reasons, but moving the line for the kickoff back to the 35 weighed heavily against that. AFAIK the option is also there for the team that scores a safety touch to kick off from their own 35, or at least it was for some time in both CFL & amateur.

The original rule was as in soccer -- you get scored against, you kick off. That's when the kickoff was from midfield and kicking off was more advantageous than now. In the 1880s the kickoff could simply be tapped & picked up by the kicking team, although they changed that well before the century turned. The option to receive wasn't introduced until the USAn field was shortened and the kickoff moved to the 40.

Rugby Union just a few years ago introduced the option to have the other team kick off after they score, via the variant known as Hong Kong Rules for the Hong Kong 7-a-side tournament. Seems to be the standard way to play 7s now.

It wasn't advertised, but the NFL ca. 1980 abolished the option to kick off after having a TD scored against you, but kept the option to kick off after a FG against for several years. Don't ask me why.

At times in USAn & Canadian football (much later in Canadian) the team that had a safety scored against them had a choice of free kick or scrimmaging a new series, same spot either choice. A touchback once conferred the same choice in American football.

Robert

[Tom.OH]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: That rule still exists in Fed, but I've never seen it exercised. Actually, one official in the area used to ask whether the scored-upon team wanted to kickoff or receive after the try...got some mighty strange looks I've heard.

A few years back in a first week freshman game I had a first year at L ask the visitors coach after a score if he wanted to kick or receive. The coach looked at him and said he'd like the ball. After the 2nd & 3rd score against his team the L asked the same question. The third time the coach asked why he was asking him that. The L said it's in the rule book. The coach and I knew each other over the years and he asked me why this new guy was asking him the same question. I told him it was in the rules but we never ask the question. I told the L not to ask anymore. Good thing as the final score was 52-0!

[dvasques]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

NCAA:
Team A scores a TD and is lined up for the Try. The kick is blocked and recovered and advanced by Team B 90 yards where a Team A player strips the ball and recovers the ball on the bounce. He then tries to avoid the B player and runs into his own end zone where he is tackled. Ruling: 1 pt. Safety for B.

This may be my lack of knowledge of college rules, but isn't a blocked try dead once it hits the ground or is recovered by R team?

[MJT]

Originally Posted by dvasques

This may be my lack of knowledge of college rules, but isn't a blocked try dead once it hits the ground or is recovered by R team?

Nope, NCAA is one level where the try is live. NF and the NFL both have the ball dead in the situation you described.

[dvasques]

Thanks MJT
I got a few other rule doubts but I'll bother latter on in topics that may be related to my questions.
Really great to have found a forum that discusses football rules. It will be really helpfull to me, even knowing that where I officiate (Rio de Janeiro, Brazil) we play under a modified NFL rule.

[MJT]

Welcome aboard!
Two other boards are http://www.nfhs.org/cgi-bin/ultimate...?ubb=forum;f=9 which is NF rules, and http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php#1 in which you can get NF or NCAA rules.