Safety

[fjmeeksjr]

Three weeks ago, my crew had a situation that puzzled us. The attacking team (A) kicked a srimmage kick to the defending team which I will call team B. team B receiver was standing on his 30 yd line when the ball struck him in the shoulder and rolled towards the end zone. Team B player went for the ball which has rolled into the end zone. He attempted to run the ball out of the end zone but was tackled. I awarded the attacking team a safety after gathering information from my Umpire and Back Judge. Was I correct or incorrect on giving this score? On page FR100 and FR101 What I have read, I feel that I was correct with my decision.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by fjmeeksjr
Three weeks ago, my crew had a situation that puzzled us. The attacking team (A) kicked a srimmage kick to the defending team which I will call team B. team B receiver was standing on his 30 yd line when the ball struck him in the shoulder and rolled towards the end zone. Team B player went for the ball which has rolled into the end zone. He attempted to run the ball out of the end zone but was tackled. I awarded the attacking team a safety after gathering information from my Umpire and Back Judge. Was I correct or incorrect on giving this score? On page FR100 and FR101 What I have read, I feel that I was correct with my decision.

Hey and welcome to the board. One piece of advice, if I may - you need to specify what rules you're playing under. Most use NF rules both there are also quite a few who use NCAA rules. There are a lot of rule differences, which makes it necessary to differentiate. Now to your play.

Under NF rules, this is a touchback. Any kick that enters R's EZ is a touchback, whether it's a scrimmage kick or a free kick.

I'm not an expert on NCAA rules, but the way that I read 8-7-2a, it would appear that this is also a touchback under NCAA rules. If I'm wrong, one of the NCAA guys will help out.

[bluezebra]

K supplied the force which took the ball into the EZ. Touchback.

Bob

[fjmeeksjr]

Hey guys! Thanks for your reply!

[NCOfficial]

Would it still be a touchback even if the ball struck a member of Team B? Wouldn't that be a new force?

[bluezebra]

"Would it still be a touchback even if the ball struck a member of Team B? Wouldn't that be a new force?"
You should read all the answers before asking a question. I answered this earlier:

"K supplied the force which took the ball into the EZ. Touchback.

Bob"

Toching does not supply a new force.

Bob

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by NCOfficial
Would it still be a touchback even if the ball struck a member of Team B? Wouldn't that be a new force?

8-5-1
The muffing or batting of a pass, kick or fumble in flight is not considered a new force.

Just remember that any kick that goes into R's EZ is always a touchback. If the kick is muffed, it's still a kick. A kick doesn't end until it's possessed or it becomes dead.

[STEVED21]

We had this play on Sunday. Thankfully the LJ called it right from the start. Of course the kicking team thought they scored a TD. The LJ or BJ has to keep reminding himself of this rule. We really get in trouble if one of us signals TD. Even if we get it right eventually, it will look like we took a score away because most fans (and many coaches) do not know the rules.

[bill c]

The thing to ALWAYS remember - and we tell our newer officials - and the veterans remind themselves this all the time ......
Once the ball is kicked - we tell ourselves OUT LOUD -
IT'S A KICK .. IT'S A KICK .. IT'S A KICK.
We say this until the ball is POSSESSED, then we say - IT'S NOT A KICK.
Anytime the ball breaks the plane of the end zone while we are saying - 'it's a kick.......' - automatically means it's a touchback. If we have completed saying it - it's another story.
This works well also when the kickers try to advance the ball - and by saying this phrase - we know they cannot.
Just remember - tell yourself - it's a kick .... over and over and it will save you a lot of questions and problems.

[bigwhistle]

STEVED.

Where did a touchdown come into this play? I would hope that you meant to say that the kicking team thought they had a safety. There is a big diffence

[STEVED21]

Sorry,that was our play on Sunday. It was similar but oblivously the kickers recovered in our game. I lost track when I scrolled down. It's a touchback regardless.

[germump]

Originally posted by STEVED21
Sorry,that was our play on Sunday. It was similar but oblivously the kickers recovered in our game. I lost track when I scrolled down. It's a touchback regardless.

Did I get it right?
The kick was touched by B beyound the neutral zone and recovered by A in B's end zone?
That would be a TD for Team A.

[Middleman]

Originally posted by germump

Did I get it right?
The kick was touched by B beyound the neutral zone and recovered by A in B's end zone?
That would be a TD for Team A. [/B]

Note: The proper team designations for kick plays are K and R, not A and B.

No, germup, you're not paying attention. You got it wrong - at least for FED rules.

The kick was touched by R beyond the neutral zone, true. This would allow K to keep the ball if recovered in the field of play. But when the ball entered R's end zone, it had not yet been possessed by R, so it was still a kick by definition. All non-scoring kicks become dead when the ball breaks the plane of R's goal line. Therefore the ball was dead before K could recover. It cannot ever be a TD, only a touchback. It also can never be a safety for the same reason. Force is not a factor on kicks entering R's end zone. So, regardless of who thinks they may have recovered the loose ball in the end zone, it is never anything but a touchback. No matter who touches it in the field of play, no matter how far it rolls or bounces, it is always a touchback.

Two things to remember:

A kick is still a kick until it is possessed or becomes dead by rule.

A non-scoring kick (other than an unsuccessful kick try) in R's end zone is always a touchback. Force is not a factor.



[Edited by Middleman on Nov 3rd, 2001 at 07:53 AM]

[germump]

Originally posted by Middleman

Note: The proper team designations for kick plays are K and R, not A and B.

Thanks, I'm willing to learn

No, germup, you're not paying attention. You got it wrong - at least for FED rules.

The kick was touched by R beyond the neutral zone, true. This would allow K to keep the ball if recovered in the field of play. But when the ball entered R's end zone, it had not yet been possessed by R, so it was still a kick by definition. All non-scoring kicks become dead when the ball breaks the plane of R's goal line. Therefore the ball was dead before K could recover. It cannot ever be a TD, only a touchback. It also can never be a safety for the same reason. Force is not a factor on kicks entering R's end zone. So, regardless of who thinks they may have recovered the loose ball in the end zone, it is never anything but a touchback. No matter who touches it in the field of play, no matter how far it rolls or bounces, it is always a touchback.

Two things to remember:

A kick is still a kick until it is possessed or becomes dead by rule.

A non-scoring kick (other than an unsuccessful kick try) in R's end zone is always a touchback. Force is not a factor.

I forgot that you have more than one set of rules. We do only have one.
We are playing under NCAA rules with few exceptions in Germany.

[Edited by Middleman on Nov 3rd, 2001 at 07:53 AM] [/B]

[bigwhistle]

germump..

If you are using NCAA rules, then you would have a touchdown if R muffed the reception of the kick and K possessed it in the end zone. However, if they possessed it in the field of play, it would be down at that point, as K cannot advance a kick.