Opening Kickoff

[Indy_Stu]

On the opening kickoff, a high kick goes in the air to the R-45 where R scatters and K22 catches the kick and advances to the R-30 and is tackled. After all the officials are done scratching their respective heads...we put the ball in play...

Where?
Whose ball?

[Theisey]

By scatter, you mean no R-player was in position to catch the F/K, right?

Spot the ball where the K-player caught it. The F/K down ended at that point, there cannot be any advance by K. 1/10 for team-K.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by Theisey

By scatter, you mean no R-player was in position to catch the F/K, right?

Spot the ball where the K-player caught it. The F/K down ended at that point, there cannot be any advance by K. 1/10 for team-K.

Theisey, it is a free kick. It must go beyond the plane of R's free kick line and touch the ground for it not to be kick catching inteference.

On a scrimmage kick, if no R player is in position to make a catch, K could touch or recover it, but it would be 1st touching, unless blocked into the ball...

[Indy_Stu]

Thanks for posting. This was posed by our association as our "Play of the Day" and the answer that was given, well I disagree with.

My answer:
First, any time K catches or recovers a free kick the ball becomes dead. The officials in the given scenario let K45 run, but they should have stopped the action. Secondly, I am going with K’s ball on the R’s 45 yard line going in. I rule this way because 6-1-5 says K keeps the ball if he catches or recovers a free kick, provided he hasn’t fouled or first touched. Since R “scattered” they were not in a position to catch the kick - - no kick catching interference, no awarded fair catch. The ball was past the 10-yard free kick line - - no first touching, no R ball. See pp. 49-50 6-1-5 and 6-1-6.

Association answer:
Where? 1st & 10 from the R-45
Whose ball? Receiver's ball
6-1-5 (p.49)
If any kicker recovers or catches a free kick, the ball becomes dead.
Since the ball was not grounded nor touched by any member of the kicking team, the receivers will have possession 1st & 10.

I disagree because of rule 6-1-5 and the definition of first touching, 2-12-1 on p.26. The definition of first touching on a free kick is in the field of play before the ball has crossed R's free kick line, so I believe K has legally recovered and can keep the ball.

[voiceoflg]

This is why I am glad I found this forum. The first game of the 2005 season, the Georgia high school team for which I broadcast kicked a high kick and fielded it 15 yards downfield without touching either the ground or a player from the receiving team. The officials ruled kick catch interference, and I questioned the call on the air. I just knew the kicking team could field the ball anywhere as long as it went ten yards.

After I returned home, I looked it up. I was quite wrong. In NFHS, the ball must touch the ground or a receiving player before the kicking team can gain possession.

The next week I admitted my mistake, read the correct rule and apologized on the air.

Hopefully I can learn enough from this forum to avoid sounding like an idiot again.

[Indy_Stu]

Below is what I replied to our association. No more posts from me, I'll let this forum chime in, and go with the majority:

Rule 6-1-5 says "If any kicker recovers or catches a free kick, the ball becomes dead. It belongs to him unless it is kick-catching interferrence and R chooses an awarded fair catch or unless it is first touching."

The definition of a recovery involves "gaining possession of a live ball after it strikes the ground."
The definition of a catch involves "establishing player possession of a live ball which is in flight, ..."

This situation involves R which has "scattered" and was not in position to make a catch (thus no Kick Catching Interference). The ball has travelled the required 10 yards (thus no First Touching) when K makes a catch. Rule 6-1-5 says when K can keep it, not that R always gets it. K's ball 1st and 10 at the R45. Officials should have blow it dead immediately, however.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by Indy_Stu

Below is what I replied to our association. No more posts from me, I'll let this forum chime in, and go with the majority:

Rule 6-1-5 says "If any kicker recovers or catches a free kick, the ball becomes dead. It belongs to him unless it is kick-catching interferrence and R chooses an awarded fair catch or unless it is first touching."

The definition of a recovery involves "gaining possession of a live ball after it strikes the ground."
The definition of a catch involves "establishing player possession of a live ball which is in flight, ..."

This situation involves R which has "scattered" and was not in position to make a catch (thus no Kick Catching Interference). The ball has travelled the required 10 yards (thus no First Touching) when K makes a catch. Rule 6-1-5 says when K can keep it, not that R always gets it. K's ball 1st and 10 at the R45. Officials should have blow it dead immediately, however.

Indy-Stu, 6-5-6 exception, which is about KCInterference says "K may catch, touch, muff, or bat a scrimmage kick in flight beyond the NZ if no player R is in position to catch the ball. It only says this is for a scrimmage kick cuz both going beyond R's plane and touching the ground MUST happen for K to legally catch, touch, muff, or bat a free kick.
100% sure on this one.

Great to have you on the board! Keep it up!

[wisref2]

To backup MJT (hey, we're a crew out here!):

Rule 6-5 (partially quoted) - "Any kicking team member may recover a free kick if it has both touched the ground and goes beyond the plane of R's free-kick line. The two requirements may occur in any order."

That may not be a complete answer, so lets jump to 7-1-1. Again, I'm to going to quote partially to remove the confusing stuff that doesn't apply. "While any free kick in in flight in or beyond the neutral zone..., K shall not: Touch the ball or R, unless blocked into the ball or R.... .

The exception noted in this rule applies only to scrimmage kicks.

Reading (rules) is fun-da-mental!!!!

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Indy_Stu

Thanks for posting. This was posed by our association as our "Play of the Day" and the answer that was given, well I disagree with.

My answer:
First, any time K catches or recovers a free kick the ball becomes dead. The officials in the given scenario let K45 run, but they should have stopped the action. Secondly, I am going with K’s ball on the R’s 45 yard line going in. I rule this way because 6-1-5 says K keeps the ball if he catches or recovers a free kick, provided he hasn’t fouled or first touched. Since R “scattered” they were not in a position to catch the kick - - no kick catching interference, no awarded fair catch. The ball was past the 10-yard free kick line - - no first touching, no R ball. See pp. 49-50 6-1-5 and 6-1-6.

Association answer:
Where? 1st & 10 from the R-45
Whose ball? Receiver's ball
6-1-5 (p.49)
If any kicker recovers or catches a free kick, the ball becomes dead.
Since the ball was not grounded nor touched by any member of the kicking team, the receivers will have possession 1st & 10.

I disagree because of rule 6-1-5 and the definition of first touching, 2-12-1 on p.26. The definition of first touching on a free kick is in the field of play before the ball has crossed R's free kick line, so I believe K has legally recovered and can keep the ball.

MJT's got it right, as usual. The 6-5-6-exception only applies to scrimmage kicks, therefore no R player being in a position to catch the ball is irrelevant.

This is kick-catching interference, and is explained in 6-5-6-a (emphasis added by me) : "While any free kick is in flight in or beyond the neutral zone to the receiver's goal line or any scrimmage kick is in flight beyond the neutral zone to the receiver's goal line, K shall not: a. Touch the ball or R, unless blocked into the ball or R, or to ward off a blocker, or b. Obstruct R's path to the ball. Penalty: Kick-catching interference (Art. 6) - (S33) - 15 yards. For interference, R may accept a 15-yard penalty from the previous spot and a replay of the down or choose to accept the penalty of an awarded fair catch at the spot of the foul."

[Indy_Stu]

All, thanks for the posts. I have been re-educated on the subject of officiating the free kick. I now agree that 6-5-6 indicates that K has committed Kick Catching Interference in the situation I provided. K cannot be the first to touch/catch a free kick in flight.

A scenario that I can envision that has K "catching" a free kick (the concept in 6-1-5 that misled me) and it belonging to him:
1) R has first muffed the catch of a free kick - - ball hits pads/arms/other and bounces back into the air
2) Opportunistic K then "catches" the still-airborne ball. He does so without committing KCI, and did not commit first touching
3) 1st & 10 for K - - lucky dog!

Thanks guys, rules discussions like these are great.

[Ed Hickland]

Before every kickoff I say this mantra,

"It must go 10 yards and it must touch the ground."

[voiceoflg]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

Before every kickoff I say this mantra,

"It must go 10 yards and it must touch the ground."

Though I have seen one exception to your quote. 2004 quarterfinals the kicker kicked the ball squarely at the up man in front of him. The ball went off the up man's facemask and went straight up. The kicking team recovered the ball in the air and was awarded possession.

Here's the video. It is about 50 seconds into the video. Check out the TD play before it, around 38 seconds in.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by voiceoflg

Though I have seen one exception to your quote. 2004 quarterfinals the kicker kicked the ball squarely at the up man in front of him. The ball went off the up man's facemask and went straight up. The kicking team recovered the ball in the air and was awarded possession.

Here's the video. It is about 50 seconds into the video. Check out the TD play before it, around 38 seconds in.

REPLY: Great fake by the QB on the TD play!

[Theisey]

OH crap..
I kicked this one.. I gave you an NCAA result, sorry. You clearly used the designators K and R rather than A and B. My fault!