Does this site ever discuss football?

[OKREF]

During football season we do.

[Texas Aggie]

A lot of NCAA guys have moved on due to the lack of NCAA rules discussion. Not a criticism, per se, but an observation.

Another reason I wish states would drop Fed football rules and use NCAA. So much better code and officials moving up no longer have to worry about 2 different sets of rules and penalty enforcements.

[HLin NC]

Message/bulletin boards are decreasing overall. Facebook, instagram, and snapchat seem to be replacing them.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

A lot of NCAA guys have moved on due to the lack of NCAA rules discussion. Not a criticism, per se, but an observation.

Another reason I wish states would drop Fed football rules and use NCAA. So much better code and officials moving up no longer have to worry about 2 different sets of rules and penalty enforcements.

So 48 states should move in the direction of 2?

[KWH]

Originally Posted by Rich

So 48 states should move in the direction of 2?

+1 - Nuff said

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Rich

So 48 states should move in the direction of 2?

Well why not? Then everyone would get to enjoy hearing high school coaches tell you "Come on that's a college rule!"

"Yes, exactly coach."

Though I didn't understand why Texas football had to be so special as to not follow the rules that every other high school sport in the state did, I did not mind that we called under NCAA rules. I think it is the better ruleset but I'm also not about to advocate that other states adopt it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Well why not? Then everyone would get to enjoy hearing high school coaches tell you "Come on that's a college rule!"

"Yes, exactly coach."

Well unless we play NFL rules, we would hear so from of that anyway. College rules are often not even understood by college coaches and even college coaches try to argue with officials about rules that do not apply to the NCAA but to NF. I had several situations where a coach wanted us to apply a high school rule to a college game. It is kind of funny when it happens.

Originally Posted by Welpe

Though I didn't understand why Texas football had to be so special as to not follow the rules that every other high school sport in the state did, I did not mind that we called under NCAA rules. I think it is the better ruleset but I'm also not about to advocate that other states adopt it.

Well again that is a subjective point of view. It is different, but better? Well not sure I agree with that point of view. Again there are so many exception to things where NF is straight forward. Now you can say some things make no sense, but at least there are not the amount of exceptions that you have to know. And officials screw them up at the college level often and I do not think I want have brand newer officials messing up simple applications the way experienced officials have issues doing at the college level.

Peace

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well unless we play NFL rules, we would hear so from of that anyway.

Absolutely. I just found it amusing because they didn't even realize they were playing under college rules.

Well again that is a subjective point of view.

Agree, it is definitely subjective. I'm just speaking from my personal opinion on that. And yes, NFHS is definitely simpler overall.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Agree, it is definitely subjective. I'm just speaking from my personal opinion on that. And yes, NFHS is definitely simpler overall.

I think that is why it will never change. All those changes and difference would have to be learned overnight basically and it would cause some problems. I just do not see this change right or wrong because of what is necessarily easier, but it would totally not fit the NF philosophy. Believe it or not the NF does use NCAA rules in any other sport and they are not going to change just for that one sport IMO.

Peace

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Rich

So 48 states should move in the direction of 2?

Different, yes, better, not necessarily.

Football is a great, but very complex game, involving serious physical contact, played by participants between ages 6 to 60+. It seems reasonable there would be separate codes focusing on rule adjustments to accommodate the significant maturity and skill capabilities.

Do Interscholastic players, generally posses the skills to comprehend the complexities of the game at the same level Collegiate or Professional players do? There are clearly obvious physical differences between the 3 major levels.

Should HS students receive the same instruction material as those in Undergraduate or Post Graduate study programs? Participation in certain sports activities share the progressive learning process practiced in general "learning".

The only way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time. It's really not about establishing an easier, or shorter, path for officiating progress. That path already exists and the obstacles and pot holes existing are, to some degree, designed and intended to challenge the travelers.

[Texas Aggie]

So 48 states should move in the direction of 2?

Yes. Not because of 2 vs. 48 but because, as I stated, it is a better code for football. We've had many members in our organization over the years that have come from Fed states. I don't know of a single person that wants to ever go back to Fed. If they had to move, many would probably just work small college and not HS. I have 2 ex-Fed guys on my crew right now and I'd give you 100 bucks for ANY nice thing they said about Fed as long as you'd give me 5 bucks for everything they liked about NCAA over Fed. I could probably go a dollar and still come out way ahead.

The great thing about states adopting the NCAA rule set is they can make whatever changes to them that's good for their state and no one cares. Does Fed still get their panties in a wad about states going off the reservation? I know they did in baseball some time ago in Texas -- and I know most states I've heard of respect the Fed rule allowed exceptions. Texas has 40+ exceptions (mostly administrative). The cool thing is that on Saturday, we go work a small college game and virtually everything we call on the field is the same. I can call a fifth year HS guy in an emergency, loan him a shirt (if necessary), and he can be on the field in a college game (actually how I worked my first college game). Have any of you Fed guys done that with someone who didn't have actual college experience and/or didn't know NCAA rules?

enjoy the simplicity of NFHS

I can't speak to what these unknown concerns are, but I have to say the NCAA rule set is better since Redding took over as Editor. He's cleaned a lot of things up.

Though I didn't understand why Texas football had to be so special as to not follow the rules that every other high school sport in the state did

One thing really doesn't have much to do with the other. The reason basketball, for example, plays Fed rules is that teams travel to other states often for tournaments. They need a consistent code among states if that occurs, which doesn't happen a lot in football -- at least not in Texas. I think for the most part, since the rules (Fed) exist, they just use them without a lot of thought.

[JRutledge]

Again, the change to NCAA rules would be a huge adjustment for all officials, not just the experienced ones. There are so many exceptions involved and it has little or nothing to do with what Redding might put in a book. Not everyone reads that book in the first place.

This IMO is why this change will never happen. Also there are NCAA rules that are not appropriate for most high school kids, like blocking below the waist rules that NCAA has. The FBZ is a lot easier to navigate than what the NCAA has and the NCAA is often very confusing. IMO you really need 7 officials for that kind of application and 5 would be hard to apply the rule properly IMO as well.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

As far as basketball is concerned, 50 states may play under NFHS rules but quite a few states use some form of a shot clock as I recall. That's a huge inconsistency. It doesn't stop teams from crossing state lines to play. There are just as many football teams that cross state lines to play games as there are basketball teams in the states I've officiated in. Sure, if a basketball team travels for a tournament, they may play more than one game but schools that are close to state lines routinely play each other in many sports. They're natural rivalries in areas.

I don't buy the argument concerning officials only having to learn one rule set. In our association of 140 officials, less than 10% officiate college football. Why change the rules for less than 10% of the membership? Fewer HS student-athletes play college football, so the argument to change the rules for the benefit of the players doesn't hold water either. State associations are concerned with how the rules affect student-athletes, not officials. That's exactly the stance they should be taking.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

The great thing about states adopting the NCAA rule set is they can make whatever changes to them that's good for their state and no one cares. Does Fed still get their panties in a wad about states going off the reservation? I know they did in baseball some time ago in Texas -- and I know most states I've heard of respect the Fed rule allowed exceptions.

The deal is simple: Only the organiz'ns that have formal input to the rules have to play by the rules. Anybody can play by anyone's rules set; they publish them, after all. For that matter, they can play by a previous edition; many adult leagues do that for football. And they can mix, match, and alter to please.

But you no play-a da game, you no make-a da rules. Seems perfectly reasonable for a governing body to say, we who are concocting the rules -- indirectly, all the member ass'ns together -- agree to play by whatever we come up with. That's how they get feedback. So sure, a state ass'n can use Fed rules with their own modif'ns, but then they have no say in the repair & maintenance of Fed rules in subsequent editions.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

The deal is simple: Only the organiz'ns that have formal input to the rules have to play by the rules. Anybody can play by anyone's rules set; they publish them, after all. For that matter, they can play by a previous edition; many adult leagues do that for football. And they can mix, match, and alter to please.

I'm really confused why there seems to be such concern about "different" rule codes. American Football is a great game played by people between the ages of 8 and 60+, that involves complex strategy, continual aggressive physical contact and competition.

The fact that there are rule accommodations to satisfy the differences between children (NFHS), young men (NCAA) and elite professional grown men (NFL) including significantly different instructional, performance and marketing objectives seems only logical.

Does it make sense to expect an interscholastic athlete to be able to immediately grasp the complexities and physical requirements of an experienced collegiate athlete, or a seasoned elite level professional, or expect those at higher performance levels to be burdened by restrictions and protocols designed to protect beginners?

Football is a progressive sport through which participants advance through the levels by means of accomplisment and ability demonstrated at pervious levels