New NFHS Mechanics?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It's been an official IAABO signal since 2009-10. But, like BktBallRef stated, it's been an unofficial signal, for many officials, not just for IAABO officials, for a lot longer than that. We were using it, here in my little corner of Connecticut, before there was such a thing as official IAABO signals; back when IAABO guys, and gals, were still using NFHS mechanics, and signals (without an official run the endline signal); also known as the good old days. Now we're all legitimate signalers, not NFHS bastard signalers.

I haven't seen the new signal's definition yet but there has been an official NFHS run the endline signal for a long time. It isn't like we haven't had one. Are they just changing the nature of the signal?

See http://www.gccoa.us/basketball/docum...%20Signals.pdf Signal #23.

Or #18 in this version:

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

... there has been an official NFHS run the endline signal for a long time.

Nice post. Thanks.

Then what's the change?

Officials Signal Chart and Officials Manual: Establish a signal to be used after a basket is made and there is a stoppage in play. The signal is used by the officials to indicate the team inbounding the ball may run the baseline. The signal will be executed by extending the arm laterally, bending the elbow at a 90-degree angle, moving the hand and forearm from the elbow in a waving motion horizontally along the end line. A new picture will need to be added to the signal chart.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Nice post. Thanks.

Then what's the change?

Officials Signal Chart and Officials Manual: Establish a signal to be used after a basket is made and there is a stoppage in play. The signal is used by the officials to indicate the team inbounding the ball may run the baseline. The signal will be executed by extending the arm laterally, bending the elbow at a 90-degree angle, moving the hand and forearm from the elbow in a waving motion horizontally along the end line. A new picture will need to be added to the signal chart.

Looks like they're revising the signal to be upwardly oriented AND specifying that it will be used at the time of the stoppage, not just at the time play is to resume.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Looks like they're revising the signal to be upwardly oriented AND specifying that it will be used at the time of the stoppage, not just at the time play is to resume.

Sounds exactly like what we've been doing....for as long as I can remember.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rich

Sounds exactly like what we've been doing....for as long as I can remember.

Yes. Even though the book has the lower signal, many here (including me) do it upwards and more visible and when the whistle blows to confirm with the crew how we will be resuming.

[ODog]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Even though the book has the lower signal, many here (including me) do it upward and more visible ...

This.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Officials Signal Chart and Officials Manual: Establish a signal to be used after a basket is made and there is a stoppage in play. The signal is used by the officials to indicate the team inbounding the ball may run the baseline. The signal will be executed by extending the arm laterally, bending the elbow at a 90-degree angle, moving the hand and forearm from the elbow in a waving motion horizontally along the end line. A new picture will need to be added to the signal chart.

Endline. They're allowed to run the endline. This, by itself, is not that big a deal. But it's one more in a very long line of examples that show the rules-ignorance of the members of the Rules Committee. We get rules references with dots instead of dashes; we have case plays that blatantly contradict the rule cited; and we get terms that don't correspond to their actual definition. The baseline is on the backboard, not on the playing court. But nobody reads Rule 1, including the Rules Committee, apparently.

Now get off my lawn!

Holy crap, I've turned into Jurassic!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Endline. They're allowed to run the endline. This, by itself, is not that big a deal. But it's one more in a very long line of examples that show the rules-ignorance of the members of the Rules Committee. ...

Distinction without a difference. In a completely different league than "reach" or "over-the-back" or "set".

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Distinction without a difference. In a completely different league than "reach" or "over-the-back" or "set".

I agree with your second sentence. However, that wasn't my point. My point is about the Rules Committee members; and I still think it's a valid one. This is another example that shows the Committee members don't know their own rules.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I agree with your second sentence. However, that wasn't my point. My point is about the Rules Committee members; and I still think it's a valid one. This is another example that shows the Committee members don't know their own rules.

I disagree. Using very commonly used and still accurate synonyms, to me, isn't such a sign.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

... the Committee members don't know their own rules.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

... very commonly used and still accurate synonyms ...

I don't have a problem with Committee members using the term baseline. Like Camron Rust stated, baseline is a commonly used synonym, and when the Committee members discuss rules, and use the term baseline, I'm sure that they all know exactly what they are talking about, with absolutely no confusion.

I do have a problem with the Editor allowing the term baseline to be used, instead of endline, in any of the Committee's work final draft. Editors are supposed to edit such minor issues, and while baseline definitely is a commonly used synonym for endline, is isn't fully accurate. Definitions are very important in rule making. i.e., Rule 4, and, while there is only a minor difference, in basketball it's called the endline (we have two of them on the court), it's not called the baseline.

It's certainly not a big deal like calling goaltending the same thing as basket interference, but those that are basketball rule "gurus", like basketball officials, and most certainly, the basketball rules Editor, should differentiate minor vocabulary differences such as endline, and baseline.

Extra Credit: When is goaltending the same exact thing as basket interference?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I disagree. Using very commonly used and still accurate synonyms, to me, isn't such a sign.

i agree, "baseline" has been around forever. and is still in use today. i dont know how it started but it is clearly understood....to say using that term means the rules committee is off/misguided etc isnt correct. (they may be on other things but that isnt one of them)