Louisiana Officials

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Rich

At some point the officials have to draw a line. They've been fighting for this for YEARS.

That was going to be my question: How long have they gone without a raise.

Battery, it's no secret we do this because we're warped enough to enjoy it but I'm sure the money you've had to put out for that vacation fund hasn't stayed level throughout your years of officiating. Neither has the cost of food, putting gas in your car, etc.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BatteryPowered

While I certainly think officials should be paid a fair amount, Is even a 10% increase really so important that you would shut down for a season? Maybe it is me but doing the math from last season that percentage increase would provide $250.

Ok...I realize that is a camp for a high school official. However, I officiate because I enjoy it. I don't want to do it as a volunteer but if I just cover my expenses for the season I am happy. In fact, I don't even track that to see if I even break even. The game fees I get just go into a vacation savings account. I try to hit one or two out-of-town camps each summer so my wife can tag along and veg by the pool and we make it a little weekend getaway.

I don't know...maybe I am just weird.

Has the cost of basketballs gone up?

The coaches salary?

Admission fees?

Scorer's table costs (esp. if they are teachers at the school)?

Uniform costs?

So, the officials are paying for all of that?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BatteryPowered

While I certainly think officials should be paid a fair amount, Is even a 10% increase really so important that you would shut down for a season? Maybe it is me but doing the math from last season that percentage increase would provide $250.

Yes. It is not just 10% for one year that is the problem. They've been mistreated so long that they'd need a 50%-100% increase to catch up with other states.

They should be getting the same raises as those making the decisions on how much they get paid. The ADs/Principles are probably getting 3-5% every year, probably fought for by their teacher's union. For them to not give the officials anything year after year is, at best, hypocritical. They're really only for the benefits of unions and good pay as far as it helps them but for not for anyone else.

[Texas Aggie]

Is even a 10% increase really so important that you would shut down for a season?

This "logic" can be used to 1) ask the same question for ANY amount -- unless it could be shown that x%, and not x-1 or x-.01, is the threshold; and 2) keep on accepting low pay indefinitely.

At SOME point, you have to take a stand and say, "I'm not interested in working at that rate."

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Yes. It is not just 10% for one year that is the problem. They've been mistreated so long that they'd need a 50%-100% increase to catch up with other states.

They should be getting the same raises as those making the decisions on how much they get paid. The ADs/Principles are probably getting 3-5% every year, probably fought for by their teacher's union. For them to not give the officials anything year after year is, at best, hypocritical. They're really only for the benefits of unions and good pay as far as it helps them but for not for anyone else.

They are making $95 per game. That's more than most states so there isn't much catching up.

[Rich]

It's despicable to pay HS officials different amounts for doing the same job.


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[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's despicable to pay HS officials different amounts for doing the same job.

The point is that maybe they aren't doing the same job.

Questions:
Is the guy with 12 years more valuable to crew than the guy with four who just moved up from JV?
Is the person who scored an 80 on the rules exam providing the same service to the schools as the guy who scored 96? Which people would the schools rather have?
What about physical fitness? If one guy can run a mile in 7 minutes and it takes another 10, are they both performing equally on the court?
If a veteran helps out by taking a Frosh or JV contest with a first or second year official, do you think that they will be providing equal service?

If the lower classified official truly is pulling his own weight, then it is imperative that the association's evaluation and classification system detect that and properly place him.
In the end, people who dedicate the time to do certain things which are conducive to quality officiating will be rewarded for it (study the rules, work on physical fitness, go to instructional camps, etc.) and those who don't put in the effort will get what they deserve. The important aspect is that the system must be open and achievable by anyone in the group (except perhaps for the newbies--1st and 2nd year refs).

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The point is that maybe they aren't doing the same job.

Questions:
Is the guy with 12 years more valuable to crew than the guy with four who just moved up from JV?
Is the person who scored an 80 on the rules exam providing the same service to the schools as the guy who scored 96? Which people would the schools rather have?
What about physical fitness? If one guy can run a mile in 7 minutes and it takes another 10, are they both performing equally on the court?
If a veteran helps out by taking a Frosh or JV contest with a first or second year official, do you think that they will be providing equal service?

If the lower classified official truly is pulling his own weight, then it is imperative that the association's evaluation and classification system detect that and properly place him.
In the end, people who dedicate the time to do certain things which are conducive to quality officiating will be rewarded for it (study the rules, work on physical fitness, go to instructional camps, etc.) and those who don't put in the effort will get what they deserve. The important aspect is that the system must be open and achievable by anyone in the group (except perhaps for the newbies--1st and 2nd year refs).

Some schools will hire the cheaper officials in a system like this.

A varsity slot in a game should pay a certain fee. If a person is qualified to work that position, he or she should be paid the fee.

And no, I never once said a JV game should pay the same as a varsity game. Matter of fact above in this thread I advocated a meaningful gap between the levels.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Rich

Some schools will hire the cheaper officials in a system like this.

A varsity slot in a game should pay a certain fee. If a person is qualified to work that position, he or she should be paid the fee.

I'm sure that some schools will hire the lower tier officials in an attempt to save money, but I'm also certain that other schools will strive to only hire the top-tiered guys. Additionally, there would be some rather unhappy parents and perhaps coaches when it comes out that school X is purposely not hiring the best available officials, especially if a kid gets injured. The AD won't like answering to that probe.

Several college conferences now pay on a tier system. It is a way to entice top quality officials to work their games. I believe that competition at the HS level for the best officials would be positive.

I'm absolutely positive that due to the shortage of officials at the HS level, assignors are sometimes forced to put people on games for which they aren't truly qualified, so just going by the criterion of "if assigned" won't cut it.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I'm sure that some schools will hire the lower tier officials in an attempt to save money, but I'm also certain that other schools will strive to only hire the top-tiered guys.

With some of my customers that have tiered pay rates for the officials, they charge the schools a fixed rate that is essentially based on the average official pay. It isn't the per game average, but the overall season average. It isn't precisely the average but based on historical averages. The school pays the same for every game but the organization reallocates between the officials the money based on the official levels. Some games may pay more out than collected from the school and some may pay less. Also, the schools don't have a say in who is assigned...the assignor does that.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Several college conferences now pay on a tier system. It is a way to entice top quality officials to work their games. I believe that competition at the HS level for the best officials would be positive.

Not a bad idea in theory, but difficult to put into practice because the "competition" you refer to would be subject to a great deal of nepotism and corruption. Heck, that already exists in many places. If you start adding in tiered varsity pay scales as opposed to just the usual V/JV split then you'll see that much more jackassery.

There are a lot of good and fair assignors out there, but unfortunately there are some that aren't.

NCAA officials at all divisions get evaluated pretty much every game. VHS officials maybe get evaluated 1-3 times per year. It would be hard to accurately rack-and-stack officiating talent for purposes of a tiered pay system with such a minute sample size of observations.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The point is that maybe they aren't doing the same job.

Questions:
Is the guy with 12 years more valuable to crew than the guy with four who just moved up from JV?
Is the person who scored an 80 on the rules exam providing the same service to the schools as the guy who scored 96? Which people would the schools rather have?
What about physical fitness? If one guy can run a mile in 7 minutes and it takes another 10, are they both performing equally on the court?
If a veteran helps out by taking a Frosh or JV contest with a first or second year official, do you think that they will be providing equal service?

If the lower classified official truly is pulling his own weight, then it is imperative that the association's evaluation and classification system detect that and properly place him.
In the end, people who dedicate the time to do certain things which are conducive to quality officiating will be rewarded for it (study the rules, work on physical fitness, go to instructional camps, etc.) and those who don't put in the effort will get what they deserve. The important aspect is that the system must be open and achievable by anyone in the group (except perhaps for the newbies--1st and 2nd year refs).

When it comes to "equal pay for equal work laws," one may be in a tenuous position to change the criteria to the "perceived quality of performance" in doing the same job. I've not understood that to be the intent of such statements - (equal pay for equal work). And whereas schools are generally government entities, such laws, whether state or federal, certainly are to be considered.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

When it comes to "equal pay for equal work laws," one may be in a tenuous position to change the criteria to the "perceived quality of performance" in doing the same job. I've not understood that to be the intent of such statements - (equal pay for equal work). And whereas schools are generally government entities, such laws, whether state or federal, certainly are to be considered.

It is very hard, in my opinion, to define "equal work" or set standards for it. Some of the 4 year (or less) guys are better than some of the 12 year (or more) guys. Some of the 80 test scores are waaaay better than some of the 95 guys. And yes, one can be terribly slow and out of shape and still do a better job than some who are in prime physical condition.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's despicable to pay HS officials different amounts for doing the same job.


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So are you saying that we should be paid for doing a lower level game the same way we are paid for a varsity game? If that is the case I do disagree with that totally. One might generate more revenue the other one might not. And if there is a difference between 2 person and 3, you are not really doing the same job. For one varsity players are usually bigger, faster and stronger and the coaches you are dealing with are not the same either.

If that is not what you are suggesting, then I apologize in advance.

Peace

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's despicable to pay HS officials different amounts for doing the same job.

At the HS level, I absolutely agree. I know some college conferences have tiered systems where the R gets more than the U's (Big 12 is one of them, I believe) but I'm not sure if this is commonplace or not.