Most points scored by 1 player on 1 play - 10/15/other?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The rule on multiple fouls says "AT APPROXIMATELY THE SAME TIME"

All fouls during the second play will be "AT APPROXIMATELY THE SAME TIME". So, the second play is not a False Multiple Foul play; the second play is a Multiple Foul play.

The first play is also a Multiple Foul play.

So, both plays are adjudicated the same. 10 FTs.

on the facts now--unsuccessful 3 point shot i will say the answer is 0 can be scored on that play. any free throws are separate plays. as far as the number of free throws--

the definition of false multiple foul says 2 or more fouls by same team and last committed before clock started. we have a case book play which says airborne A1 fouled in act of shooting by B1. B2 slides into landing area and fouls A1 before he gets foot to ground. Ruling calls those false multiple fouls. 2 shots for each. so we know in that situation they are not to be considered "at approximately same time." the play has been in case book forever...

in the second play mentioned we are told that first foul is committed and then the others, different times. say first foul was on arm--last foul a block before shooter returns to floor. 3 in between. i think you would call them all false multiples.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

That isn't what is mean by approximately the same/different time.

This is a false multiple.....B1 fouls A1.....clock stops. Durning the FT or the throwin, B2 fouls A1.

If the foul is on the same try, it is approximately the same time, and should be a regular multiple, even if you can discern that one occurred slightly after the other.

If what you suggested were true, it would be possible for the 3-point shooter to get fouled 5 times and miss and get 15 shots (3 points for each foul) since each foul in a false set is penalized independently and in the order of occurrence.
,

take a look at the case play--4.19.12. i go up. you foul me in air. i start coming down and before one foot touches ground MD slides under me. you guys on same team. ruling--false multiple--2 free throws each….

it is their play..and yes by that play 15 is the number.

[luvhoops]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The rule on multiple fouls says "AT APPROXIMATELY THE SAME TIME"

All fouls during the second play will be "AT APPROXIMATELY THE SAME TIME". So, the second play is not a False Multiple Foul play; the second play is a Multiple Foul play.

The first play is also a Multiple Foul play.

So, both plays are adjudicated the same. 10 FTs.

One has to love you bob. We have been discussing Case 4.19.11 and Case 4.19.12. Directly in the book, for Case 4.19.12, it is titled "False Multiple Foul" and you are saying it is not a False Multiple Foul.

Yes, I realize that this is off-topic and apologize. I presume that bob notified the NFHS of their "error" and that they will be correcting it in future case books. What was their response? For any upcoming posts bob, please just quickly indicate that the NFHS book is incorrect. With that, we won't have so many back-and-forth posts. We will know, immediately, to disregard the book, and go by what you say.

At the very least, bob did provide an actual number in his first responsive post.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by luvhoops

2) In one act/motion, A1 attempts an unsuccessful 3-point shot and is fouled by 5 defenders AT DIFFERENT TIMES. How many points can theoretically be scored?

The only way this can be literally at different times is if the shooter goes up, gets hit and thrown in the air, caught by another defender and thrown back in the air, caught by another... etc.

The amount of time between the shooter going up and landing, in normal play, is still "approximately at the same time".

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

The only way this can be literally at different times is if the shooter goes up, gets hit and thrown in the air, caught by another defender and thrown back in the air, caught by another... etc.

The amount of time between the shooter going up and landing, in normal play, is still "approximately at the same time".

i agree if we are talking about normal usage of the words. but 4.19.12 tells us that being fouled in the air on a shot and then fouled again on landing are not "approximately the same time." those are to be considered false multiple fouls as opposed to just multiple fouls.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BigCat

i agree if we are talking about normal usage of the words. but 4.19.12 tells us that being fouled in the air on a shot and then fouled again on landing are not "approximately the same time." those are to be considered false multiple fouls as opposed to just multiple fouls.

Agreed. Throw 3 more fouls in there in the interim, though...

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by luvhoops

Under NFHS rules, what are the most points that can be theoretically scored by one player on a single basketball play? Exclude repeated technical/intentional/flagrant fouls.

...

Based on (False Multiple Foul) Case 4.19.12, it could be 15.
B1-B5 foul A1, all at different times, attempting an unsuccessful 3-point shot?
3x5 = 15

Nope....if is the same try, they're not going to be false multiple fouls. Only the 5 multiple fouls on a miss give you 10 points....no more. On a make, the same 5 fouls would potentially yield 8 points (3 for the make but 1 FT for each foul).

[potato]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Nope....if is the same try, they're not going to be false multiple fouls. Only the 5 multiple fouls on a miss give you 10 points....no more. On a make, the same 5 fouls would potentially yield 8 points (3 for the make but 1 FT for each foul).

Are you guys saying if A1 goes up for a 2pt layup, gets fouled by B1 and continues for a shot and B2 comes in to block the shot but fouls A1, and the shot enters, A1 gets another 2 free throws 1 for each foul? never seen it before.

What if A1 misses the shot, how many free throws would be awarded?

[bob jenkins]

[QUOTE=potato;950230]Are you guys saying if A1 goes up for a 2pt layup, gets fouled by B1 and continues for a shot and B2 comes in to block the shot but fouls A1, and the shot enters, A1 gets another 2 free throws 1 for each foul? never seen it before.[/quote[

By rule, yes. In practice, no.

What if A1 misses the shot, how many free throws would be awarded?

For multiple fouls:

1 FT for each foul if no try, a 2-point try (successful or not), or a successful 3-point try.

2 FTs for each foul if an unsuccessful 3-point try, or an I or F

[LSCoach]

Originally Posted by potato

By rule, yes. In practice, no.

I have a question. Why is this the case? I've seen a shooter on his way up get fouled, release the shot, then get leveled by an attempted shot blocker. I've never expected my shooter to get more than the accustomed 2 free throws.

In another thread Mutantducky brought up a scenario where he was adamant that he'd award free throws to a shooter that has released the shot and no longer in the act of shooting. By rule he was wrong but in his defense I've seen it multiple times. It's almost as if in practice, if the ball is still in the air, the shots are awarded even if the shooter is no longer in the act of shooting.

Why would the letter of the rule not be followed in this circumstance but the letter of the rule was important his circumstance?

To qualify this, I'm not saying I have an opinion one way or the other. I'm here because understanding the rules and there interpretations make me a better coach and has helped immensely in communicating with officials properly.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by LSCoach

Why would the letter of the rule not be followed in this circumstance but the letter of the rule was important his circumstance?

It is a matter of penalizing more the rules allow for the infraction that has occurred (shooter having already landed) vs. applying judgement to not call a foul on the 2nd contact since it can be judged that two contacts typically don't create any more disadvantage than one. However, the multiple foul exists for that one time that is just might be needed.

[luvhoops]

Just like in society, there are some rules that are never enforced. The rule/case books are in need of editing.

Multiple fouls happen every game. It is NEVER called/adjudicated properly. There are countless times when a shooter near the basket gets fouled by more than one person. Only one foul is called. I've even seen plays where an official jokingly says aloud "pick one." Just like Rule 4-24 Article 7 happens EVERY game and is not enforced based on letter of rule. (I sense another topic coming)

Art 7. It is not legal to use the hand and/or forearm to prevent an opponent from attacking the ball during a dribble or when throwing for goal.

[potato]

[QUOTE=bob jenkins;950236]

Originally Posted by potato

Are you guys saying if A1 goes up for a 2pt layup, gets fouled by B1 and continues for a shot and B2 comes in to block the shot but fouls A1, and the shot enters, A1 gets another 2 free throws 1 for each foul? never seen it before.[/quote[

By rule, yes. In practice, no.



For multiple fouls:

1 FT for each foul if no try, a 2-point try (successful or not), or a successful 3-point try.

2 FTs for each foul if an unsuccessful 3-point try, or an I or F

The 1FT for each try i assume is the penalty for the foul after the initial foul?

[bob jenkins]

[QUOTE=potato;950388]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The 1FT for each try i assume is the penalty for the foul after the initial foul?

It's the penalty for each of the fouls that is a part of the multiple foul.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by luvhoops

Under NFHS rules, what are the most points that can be theoretically scored by one player on a single basketball play? Exclude repeated technical/intentional/flagrant fouls.

I was using Case book from 2008-2009. (case plays listed may be different in current books)

Based on (Multiple Foul) Case 4.19.11, it could be 10.
B1-B5 simultaneously foul A1 attempting an unsuccessful 3-point shot?
2x5 = 10

Based on (False Multiple Foul) Case 4.19.12, it could be 15.
B1-B5 foul A1, all at different times, attempting an unsuccessful 3-point shot?
3x5 = 15

For False Multiple Fouls, if it is always and only 2 shots for each foul, then it would be 10 and not 15.

Please confirm or disprove these thoughts. Looking for rule/case references only, not stuff like whether it could happen or anything along those lines.

i'm sorry i said you were in outer space. i say the answer is 3. "how many points ON A single play?" the free throws are separate "plays." now if you said "as a result of" or something else i'd do all the other thinking….