Crash…no whistle

[Rich]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Depends on how much you saw and how bad you think it was. If the offensive players ends up on top of the defender on the floor then you probably need a whistle, right or wrong. If you think the L or C could be no-calling a defender leaving early or something like that leave it alone. But if you have two players on the floor then you probably have something. In certain situations I think a total guess is better than nothing at all. It's all a feel for the situation and the temperature of the game.

A late correct whistle is ALWAYS better than an incorrect no-call....

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Rich

A late correct whistle is ALWAYS better than an incorrect no-call....

And a late INCORRECT whistle is always worse than an incorrect no-call.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

And a late INCORRECT whistle is always worse than an incorrect no-call.

I'd argue against that. I'd rather see someone make an incorrect call on a block/charge where both players go to the floor and a whistle is obviously needed.

We can work on fixing the incorrect call...failure to put a whistle on a play that needs it is usually a bigger problem in my experience.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'd argue against that. I'd rather see someone make an incorrect call on a block/charge where both players go to the floor and a whistle is obviously needed.

We can work on fixing the incorrect call...failure to put a whistle on a play that needs it is usually a bigger problem in my experience.

I agree with Nevada.

I cringe when I hear people pre-game that if bodies are on the floor we HAVE to have a whistle on the play. Basketball is a contact sport. But we all know that all contact is not illegal. Sometimes there is contact and it looks ugly but its possible nobody did anything illegal. Play on.

I had this play last night. I'm C right in front of Coach A with his team on offense. Dribbler drives into a perfectly legal secondary defender near the top of the key, falls down, ball comes out, primary defender hits the floor too, the ball ends up going the other way with a layup for Team B.

Coach A says another phrase I hate, "that had to be something? A charge? (on his own player)." "Coach your player put his head down to dribble through a double team, lost the ball, and didn't displace anybody." It was something--ugly basketball--but not illegal. The T on the play and I talked during the next timeout and we both saw the exact same thing.

I prefer to pre-game that if we have bodies on floor we should either have a whistle or be able to explain how they got there. At times easier said than done but the focus should be on maintaining angles, refereeing the defense, and getting the play right.

Guessing and penalizing a player and team who did nothing worse than a no call IMO. Especially if you are doing so out of your primary.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

I agree with Nevada.

I cringe when I hear people pre-game that if bodies are on the floor we HAVE to have a whistle on the play. Basketball is a contact sport. But we all know that all contact is not illegal. Sometimes there is contact and it looks ugly but its possible nobody did anything illegal. Play on.

I had this play last night. I'm C right in front of Coach A with his team on offense. Dribbler drives into a perfectly legal secondary defender near the top of the key, falls down, ball comes out, primary defender hits the floor too, the ball ends up going the other way with a layup for Team B.

Coach A says another phrase I hate, "that had to be something? A charge? (on his own player)." "Coach your player put his head down to dribble through a double team, lost the ball, and didn't displace anybody." It was something--ugly basketball--but not illegal. The T on the play and I talked during the next timeout and we both saw the exact same thing.

I prefer to pre-game that if we have bodies on floor we should either have a whistle or be able to explain how they got there. At times easier said than done but the focus should be on maintaining angles, refereeing the defense, and getting the play right.

Guessing and penalizing a player and team who did nothing worse than a no call IMO. Especially if you are doing so out of your primary.

I'm not saying the T should rush in and put a whistle on this (the OP).

I'm saying that the C/L who should've had good looks should have had a whistle. Matter of fact, I was the T last week when the same thing happened. I'm pretty sure that there was a block, but I just didn't have a good look and I stayed off it.

Most time when a player drives and he AND a defender go to the floor we are not going to no-call the play. No calling it because they didn't feel they had a good look or could make a decision or whatever isn't the right outcome.

[DRJ1960]

I must confess that at the end of my first decade officiating HS BB I am still troubled by the idea of "make a call even if you aren't certain" in certain situations.

In the scenario we are discussing I have watched more refs than I want to think about call a travel just to "have a whistle" on a crash....

I believe it is on this board that I have heard more than once "if you can't explain it, you can't call it" or something similar.