OOB rule clarification

[Terrapins Fan]

Can a player save a ball fom going out of bounds, have their momentum carry them out and they come back in and be the 1st to touch the ball?

Can you direct me to the rule. I think you can.

[just another ref]

This is a legal play. There's probably a case play about it. It has to do with player location. The player is inbounds if he's not touching out of bounds or airborne having last touched out of bounds. As far as first to touch after returning, there's no rule against it, therefore it is legal.

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

Can a player save a ball fom going out of bounds, have their momentum carry them out and they come back in and be the 1st to touch the ball?

Can you direct me to the rule. I think you can.

Legal in NFHS ... not so in NCAA if the player goes out of bounds under their own volition.

NFHS Caseplay

7.1.1 SITUATION D:

A1 jumps from inbounds to retrieve an errant pass near a boundary line. A1 catches the ball while in the air and tosses it back to the court. A1 lands out of bounds and (a) is the first to touch the ball after returning inbounds; (b) returns inbounds and immediately dribbles the ball; or (c) picks up the ball after returning to the court and then begins a dribble.

RULING: Legal in (a) and (b). Illegal in (c) as the controlled toss of the ball to the court by A1 constitutes the start of a dribble, dribbling a second time after picking up the ball is an illegal dribble violation. (4-15-5; 4-15-6d; 4-35; 9-5)

[Terrapins Fan]

Thanks for finding the rule for me. I knew I had seen it, but it's a play you don't see very often. We had it tonight. I passed on the call and my partner called the violation.

It was a 3 person crew and both partners said I was wrong. It didn't think I was.

Thanks.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

Thanks for finding the rule for me. I knew I had seen it, but it's a play you don't see very often. We had it tonight. I passed on the call and my partner called the violation.

It was a 3 person crew and both partners said I was wrong. It didn't think I was.

Thanks.

Email them the case play and brace yourself for the deafening sound of crickets.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

Thanks for finding the rule for me. I knew I had seen it, but it's a play you don't see very often. We had it tonight. I passed on the call and my partner called the violation.

It was a 3 person crew and both partners said I was wrong. It didn't think I was.

Thanks.

By chance are your partners football officials?

[Terrapins Fan]

By chance are your partners football officials?

1 yes. 1 no.

[Terrapins Fan]

Email them the case play and brace yourself for the deafening sound of crickets.

I did. It's just one of those things that happens rarely.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by PG_Ref

not so in NCAA if the player goes out of bounds under their own volition.

How is the underlined part relevant to the OP, in which the person asked if he saved the ball and momentum carried him out?

In fact, the rule for a person leaving the court on their own is more harsh in NFHS, a violation immediately, than in NCAA, not a violation unless the person is the first to touch the ball.

[BigCat]

If momentum causes a player to go out of bounds, that player can be the first to touch it in NFHS and NCAAM. momentum is not considered "own volition" as used in NCAA rule. volition is to make a conscious choice. case play where A steps out of bounds to avoid contact. it isnt deceitful so not a class B tech, but he did make a choice to step out so he cannot be first to touch after he returns.

when momentum takes you out of bounds you are not making a choice--it is momentum doing it....

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by johnny d

How is the underlined part relevant to the OP, in which the person asked if he saved the ball and momentum carried him out?

In fact, the rule for a person leaving the court on their own is more harsh in NFHS, a violation immediately, than in NCAA, not a violation unless the person is the first to touch the ball.

Agree.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

Can a player save a ball fom going out of bounds, have their momentum carry them out and they come back in and be the 1st to touch the ball?

Can you direct me to the rule. I think you can.

Also, Terrapin, be aware of how the ball was saved. if the player grabs ball with one foot on ground, jumps off of it and is in air with both feet--momentum carrying him out of bounds--then throws it to court.....then lands out, comes back in, he cannot be the first to touch the ball. not because he isnt inbounds but because it would constitute a dribble with his pivot foot off the ground.

in the case book play pg cited the player first catches the ball while IN THE AIR. player has no pivot foot so he can be the first to come in and touch the ball after throwing it back into court. he has no pivot foot so starting dribble with a pivot foot off floor does not apply.....

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Also, Terrapin, be aware of how the ball was saved. if the player grabs ball with one foot on ground, jumps off of it and is in air with both feet--momentum carrying him out of bounds--then throws it to court.....then lands out, comes back in, he cannot be the first to touch the ball. not because he isnt inbounds but because it would constitute a dribble with his pivot foot off the ground.

in the case book play pg cited the player first catches the ball while IN THE AIR. player has no pivot foot so he can be the first to come in and touch the ball after throwing it back into court. he has no pivot foot so starting dribble with a pivot foot off floor does not apply.....

Are you sure about that? When does a pivot foot (by rule) get established?

Can't a player who catches the ball in the above situation still legally land on both feet....and then start a dribble from that point? If they can do that, why can they not start a dribble after jumping and before landing?

[griblets]

Originally Posted by PG_Ref

Legal in NFHS ... not so in NCAA if the player goes out of bounds under their own volition.

NFHS Caseplay

7.1.1 SITUATION D:

A1 jumps from inbounds to retrieve an errant pass near a boundary line. A1 catches the ball while in the air and tosses it back to the court. A1 lands out of bounds and (a) is the first to touch the ball after returning inbounds; (b) returns inbounds and immediately dribbles the ball; or (c) picks up the ball after returning to the court and then begins a dribble.

RULING: Legal in (a) and (b). Illegal in (c) as the controlled toss of the ball to the court by A1 constitutes the start of a dribble, dribbling a second time after picking up the ball is an illegal dribble violation. (4-15-5; 4-15-6d; 4-35; 9-5)

I have a hard time reconciling case book 7.1.1.D (a) and (b) with Rule 9-3-1.

Rule 9-3-1 Note: "The dribbler has committed a violation if he/she steps on or outside a boundary, even though he/she is not touching the ball while he/she is out of bounds."

Since the dribble started with the toss back to the court (as clearly stated in the case book ruling), by Rule 9-3-1, a violation has occurred as soon as dribbler A1 touches the ball upon reentry to the court (assuming, per the case play, that A1 is first to touch).

Gentlemen, your thoughts?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by griblets

I have a hard time reconciling case book 7.1.1.D (a) and (b) with Rule 9-3-1.

Rule 9-3-1 Note: "The dribbler has committed a violation if he/she steps on or outside a boundary, even though he/she is not touching the ball while he/she is out of bounds."

Since the dribble started with the toss back to the court (as clearly stated in the case book ruling), by Rule 9-3-1, a violation has occurred as soon as dribbler A1 touches the ball upon reentry to the court (assuming, per the case play, that A1 is first to touch).

Gentlemen, your thoughts?

It's an interrupted dribble, meaning the player is not a dribbler when he lands out of bounds.

Other wise, any time a player saves the ball and goes out of bounds, you'd have to call OOB if the ball is bouncing in bounds.