The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 07, 2015, 08:01am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 655
Ejection

Had an ejection in the Girls Varsity before my game. Late in a tight game that eventually went to OT.

We were visitors. Home # 5 gets whistled for a hold. A couple colorful metaphors from the player earns her "T" number one. After she get's the "T", player #5 gives the "T" sign right back to the official, literally 6 inches in front of the officials face. Whack #2.

Coach gets the player to the bench while official reports all the shananigans to the table. Then informs the coach that #5 is ejected and has to leave the confines.

Since the locker room is opposite the benches, #5 has to cross the court. (Well she could have walked around the endline). But in her stroll across the floor, walks between the other 2 officials and flips them each a bird. Then does a 360 turn with said birds held high for all to see.

Was enough enough, or should either of the other 2 officials tossed in another "T"?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 07, 2015, 08:43am
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,837
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachP View Post
Had an ejection in the Girls Varsity before my game. Late in a tight game that eventually went to OT.

We were visitors. Home # 5 gets whistled for a hold. A couple colorful metaphors from the player earns her "T" number one. After she get's the "T", player #5 gives the "T" sign right back to the official, literally 6 inches in front of the officials face. Whack #2.

Coach gets the player to the bench while official reports all the shananigans to the table. Then informs the coach that #5 is ejected and has to leave the confines.

Since the locker room is opposite the benches, #5 has to cross the court. (Well she could have walked around the endline). But in her stroll across the floor, walks between the other 2 officials and flips them each a bird. Then does a 360 turn with said birds held high for all to see.

Was enough enough, or should either of the other 2 officials tossed in another "T"?

NFHS Rules require the Disqualified Player to remain on the Bench so as to be under the supervision of her HC. The only way she could have gone to her team's lockerroom is if an adult from her school escorted her to the lockerroom and remained there with her.

The officiating crew should have smacked up side of their collective heads for telling her HC that she had to go to the lockeroom.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 07, 2015, 08:46am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachP View Post
Had an ejection in the Girls Varsity before my game. Late in a tight game that eventually went to OT.

We were visitors. Home # 5 gets whistled for a hold. A couple colorful metaphors from the player earns her "T" number one. After she get's the "T", player #5 gives the "T" sign right back to the official, literally 6 inches in front of the officials face. Whack #2.

Coach gets the player to the bench while official reports all the shananigans to the table. Then informs the coach that #5 is ejected and has to leave the confines.

Since the locker room is opposite the benches, #5 has to cross the court. (Well she could have walked around the endline). But in her stroll across the floor, walks between the other 2 officials and flips them each a bird. Then does a 360 turn with said birds held high for all to see.

Was enough enough, or should either of the other 2 officials tossed in another "T"?
First, I thought an ejected player does not have to leave the gym - they can stay on the bench. No? Second, if I saw the kid do that on her way out, I would T her again and give the coach an indirect.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 07, 2015, 08:47am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 47
Unless your state has different rules for an ejected player, the ejected player is supposed to remain on the bench. If it is necessary to send any player (ejected or not) off the court, then a school representative should be sent with that player as well.

Since the player was ejected/disqualified and the coach notified, that player is now considered bench personal. In this case, any flipping of the bird, bad behavior, etc. that would earn a T would be assessed to her and also be an indirect against the Head Coach. The Head Coach has now lost his/her coaching box.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 07, 2015, 09:02am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 655
To clarify, she would not stop chirping on the bench and yes, an adult met up with her after she crossed the floor. Not sure who the adult was.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 07, 2015, 09:12am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 13,933
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachP View Post
To clarify, she would not stop chirping on the bench and yes, an adult met up with her after she crossed the floor. Not sure who the adult was.
Her actions leaving the court should lead to a school suspension.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 07, 2015, 10:09am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: PG County, MD
Posts: 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
First, I thought an ejected player does not have to leave the gym - they can stay on the bench. No? Second, if I saw the kid do that on her way out, I would T her again and give the coach an indirect.
At the high school level, players (non-adults) are disqualified to the bench (not ejected), unless removal from the gym is absolutely necessary. And then, with adult supervision. Adults can be ejected and have to leave the gym...

10-5-5 Note
...Ejected adult bench personnel shall leave the vicinity (out of sight and sound) of the playing area immediately and are prohibited from any further contact (direct or indirect) with the team during the remainder of the game. Failure to comply with the rules of ejection may result in the game being forfeited.
__________________
You learn something new everyday ...
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 07, 2015, 10:50am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachP View Post
To clarify, she would not stop chirping on the bench and yes, an adult met up with her after she crossed the floor. Not sure who the adult was.
If that is the case, then the officials were 100% correct to have her removed from the bench with proper supervision.

There is a passage in the NFHS rules book about this as well as stating that a player disqualified for a flagrant foul may be removed from the gym at the discretion of the officials. People seem to forget about these provisions.

The final action of that team member would have earned a flagrant technical foul if I had been on the court.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 07, 2015, 11:14am
Show up, keep up, shut up
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,570
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachP View Post
Had an ejection in the Girls Varsity before my game. Late in a tight game that eventually went to OT.

We were visitors. Home # 5 gets whistled for a hold. A couple colorful metaphors from the player earns her "T" number one. After she get's the "T", player #5 gives the "T" sign right back to the official, literally 6 inches in front of the officials face. Whack #2.

Coach gets the player to the bench while official reports all the shananigans to the table. Then informs the coach that #5 is ejected and has to leave the confines.

Since the locker room is opposite the benches, #5 has to cross the court. (Well she could have walked around the endline). But in her stroll across the floor, walks between the other 2 officials and flips them each a bird. Then does a 360 turn with said birds held high for all to see.

Was enough enough, or should either of the other 2 officials tossed in another "T"?
Damn. I'm glad you made her leave, but there's no way you can make sure she has an escort the whole way. As for the actions once she was DQ'd, I'd keep whacking her and hope I didn't get to three indirects by the time she left the floor. I hope you have a lengthy talk with your state association, let us know the result if you do.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 07, 2015, 12:25pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
If that is the case, then the officials were 100% correct to have her removed from the bench with proper supervision.

There is a passage in the NFHS rules book about this as well as stating that a player disqualified for a flagrant foul may be removed from the gym at the discretion of the officials. People seem to forget about these provisions.

The final action of that team member would have earned a flagrant technical foul if I had been on the court.

You are correct but from the OP it appears that the HC was letting her leave without adult supervision. The game officials should have never let that happen in the first place.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 07, 2015, 12:35pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Had a similar situation. V1 was tossed for fighting, coach sends him to the locker room (we did not), and he flips off the home crowd on his way out.
We called another T.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 07, 2015, 12:40pm
Back from the DL
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,540
My understanding is there's a difference between disqualified and ejected. Disqualified players (typically those that foul out) remain on the bench. Ejected players go to the locker room.

Two technical fouls, or one flagrant foul, warrant a disqualification. We had a flagrant personal foul (elbow to the head) in a game last week. That player was disqualified, and remained on the bench.

That's not to say you still can't eject a disqualified player, but as already stated here, there has to be adult supervision.
__________________
Confidence is a vehicle, not a destination.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 07, 2015, 12:47pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,837
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
My understanding is there's a difference between disqualified and ejected. Disqualified players (typically those that foul out) remain on the bench. Ejected players go to the locker room.

Two technical fouls, or one flagrant foul, warrant a disqualification. We had a flagrant personal foul (elbow to the head) in a game last week. That player was disqualified, and remained on the bench.

That's not to say you still can't eject a disqualified player, but as already stated here, there has to be adult supervision.


By rule, Players and Substitutes are Disqualified. Head Coaches are Disqualified and Ejected. All other Bench Personnel are Ejected.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 07, 2015, 01:08pm
This IS My Social Life
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at L, T, or C
Posts: 2,379
Do I Got This Right?

Interesting things I didn't know before.
First, the book does not speak of "ejection" of a player, only, as in Casebook 10.5, of a disqualified player required to leave the vicinity of the court in the extreme situation noted above. Therefore, a player can be "disqualified", and forced to leave the vicinity of the court, but not, as the term is frequently used, "ejected."
Second, the terms "disqualified" and "ejected" seem to be used synonymously for the head coach, when merited. A disqualified coach or adult bench personnel seem to be ejected, forced to leave the vicinity of the court, and an ejected coach is one who has been disqualified -- 10-4, 10-5 (last NOTE in each).

Here's the only reference in either Rulebook or Casebook dealing with the player having to leave the vicinity of the court:
10.5: ...A disqualified team member or student bench personnel shall go to or remain on the bench. However, in an unusual situation, an official has the authority to require that these individuals who have committed a flagrant technical foul must leave the vicinity of the court. This action is necessary when permitting such offenders to remain at courtside would tend to incite the crowd, to incite the opponents, or to subject the officials, opponents or others administering the game, to unsporting harassment. In such circumstances, the official should require the individual who has committed a flagrant foul to leave the vicinity of the court with an adult supervisor.
It must be emphasized that an official does have this authority, when the circumstances resulting from any flagrant foul warrant it. (10-5 Note)

Is this right?
__________________
Making Every Effort to Be in the Right Place at the Right Time, Looking at the Right Thing to Make the Right Call

Last edited by Freddy; Wed Jan 07, 2015 at 01:17pm. Reason: added "adult bench personnel"
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 07, 2015, 03:44pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
My understanding is there's a difference between disqualified and ejected. Disqualified players (typically those that foul out) remain on the bench. Ejected players go to the locker room.

Two technical fouls, or one flagrant foul, warrant a disqualification. We had a flagrant personal foul (elbow to the head) in a game last week. That player was disqualified, and remained on the bench.

That's not to say you still can't eject a disqualified player, but as already stated here, there has to be adult supervision.
Correct. NFHS players are generally minors. Can't let them go off on their own because of liability and accountability factors. NCAA rules are different because the players are adults.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Her actions leaving the court should lead to a school suspension.
Absolutely. But not our place as officials to recommend that on the disqualification/ejection report. We state the facts. The school and state association determine any suspensions.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ejection just another ref Baseball 15 Tue May 11, 2010 09:58pm
My First Ejection ... Al Softball 16 Tue May 02, 2006 10:57pm
Ejection tjones1 Basketball 31 Tue Nov 23, 2004 09:17am
Ejection JoeyMac323 Basketball 7 Mon Nov 08, 2004 08:19pm
My first ejection! buddha69 Softball 20 Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:51am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:11am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1