Buzzer sounding in the middle of the quarter

[splitveer]

Last night we had the following situation:
Start of the fourth quarter and we inbounds the ball using the alternating possession arrow to the white team. ball is inbounds and the white team runs there offense where they put up a shot (that went in). Right before the shot and while the shooter is in the shooting motion (but hasn't released the ball) the horn sounds. When we go to the table they tell us we have given the ball to the wrong team on the alternating possession to start the quarter.

Here is how we handled it:

We didn't allow the basket and we gave the ball to White based on this is not a correctable error situation. We then made sure the alternating possession arrow was for Team blue.

1. Was this handled correctly?

2. We told the clock keeper to not buzz until a dead ball. Is this good advice or when would be a situaion where they might buzz during a live ball situation?

Thanks!

[Adam]

When did your whistle blow?

The horn does not make the ball dead.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by splitveer

Last night we had the following situation:
Start of the fourth quarter and we inbounds the ball using the alternating possession arrow to the white team. ball is inbounds and the white team runs there offense where they put up a shot (that went in). Right before the shot and while the shooter is in the shooting motion (but hasn't released the ball) the horn sounds. When we go to the table they tell us we have given the ball to the wrong team on the alternating possession to start the quarter.

Here is how we handled it:

We didn't allow the basket and we gave the ball to White based on this is not a correctable error situation. We then made sure the alternating possession arrow was for Team blue.

1. Was this handled correctly?

2. We told the clock keeper to not buzz until a dead ball. Is this good advice or when would be a situaion where they might buzz during a live ball situation?

Thanks!

No, you did not handle this correctly.

1) Ignore the Horn until the Ball is Dead.

2) Score the FG Attempt by W1.

3) Keept the AP Arrow set to Blue.

4) Tell Blue's HC that he will get two of the next three AP Arrow Throw-ins (optional).

5) Put the Ball into play by a Throw-in by Blue anywhere behind the Endline in its Backcourt.

MTD, Sr.

[HokiePaul]

I agree with the other posters ... score the goal and set the arrow to Blue.

However, to play devils advocate ... isn't there also a statement in the officials manual about the horn sounding inadvertantly. Don't have my book in front of me but I think it says something like "if the game horn is sounded, either official may recognize it with a whistle and stop any action, even to the extent of declaring that the ball did not become live".

Based on this, could the official recognize the horn, declare that the ball never became live, and award the AP to Blue? I'm guessing I'm missing something because this doesn't seem right, but curious to see what others would say.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

I agree with the other posters ... score the goal and set the arrow to Blue.

However, to play devils advocate ... isn't there also a statement in the officials manual about the horn sounding inadvertantly. Don't have my book in front of me but I think it says something like "if the game horn is sounded, either official may recognize it with a whistle and stop any action, even to the extent of declaring that the ball did not become live".

Based on this, could the official recognize the horn, declare that the ball never became live, and award the AP to Blue? I'm guessing I'm missing something because this doesn't seem right, but curious to see what others would say.

How can you "declare" the ball was never live? It was given to the player who inbounded it? There are very specific instances where action may be vacated and this isn't it.

Also like it was said before, the "horn" or "whistle" don't necessarily make the ball dead.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

I agree with the other posters ... score the goal and set the arrow to Blue.

However, to play devils advocate ... isn't there also a statement in the officials manual about the horn sounding inadvertantly. Don't have my book in front of me but I think it says something like "if the game horn is sounded, either official may recognize it with a whistle and stop any action, even to the extent of declaring that the ball did not become live".

Based on this, could the official recognize the horn, declare that the ball never became live, and award the AP to Blue? I'm guessing I'm missing something because this doesn't seem right, but curious to see what others would say.

No, you can't. The rule is clear that once the throw in is complete, the AP error cannot be corrected. We don't get do-overs. Too much time has passed in this case from the time the ball became live until the horn sounded.

[splitveer]

So as an official what do we do if the horn goes off during a live ball. Do we ignore the horn and expect the players to keep playing? Do we blow the whistle because the horn went off (which is what we did, but it was after the shot)?

I appreciate the help on this. We talked it over as a group and one of my partners said to count the basket. I guess I should of listened to him.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by splitveer

So as an official what do we do if the horn goes off during a live ball. Do we ignore the horn and expect the players to keep playing? Do we blow the whistle because the horn went off (which is what we did, but it was after the shot)?

Depending on what's happening, sometimes you can keep going, but often it is such a disruption that you blow things dead and start over. Luckily, in your situation it was after the shot, which sounds like it was a good time to reset. Certainly no reason not to count it.

Isn't the table supposed to horn immediately in the case of a correctable error situation where the correctable window might pass before a stoppage in play?

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by splitveer

So as an official what do we do if the horn goes off during a live ball. Do we ignore the horn and expect the players to keep playing? Do we blow the whistle because the horn went off (which is what we did, but it was after the shot)?

I appreciate the help on this. We talked it over as a group and one of my partners said to count the basket. I guess I should of listened to him.

If there is any confusion whatsoever on the part of the players either on offense or defense, I hit the whistle for sure. I think it would be totally unfair if a ball handler travel, or for a defender to stop playing and have the man he's guarding blow by him due to confusion. it's a lot easier to do of course when a shot hasn't been put up...

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Isn't the table supposed to horn immediately in the case of a correctable error situation where the correctable window might pass before a stoppage in play?

The OP wasn't a correctable error situation.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Isn't the table supposed to horn immediately in the case of a correctable error situation where the correctable window might pass before a stoppage in play?

If the ball is live and the CE window hasn't already passed, you have until the next dead ball to correct it.

Originally Posted by splitveer

So as an official what do we do if the horn goes off during a live ball. Do we ignore the horn and expect the players to keep playing? Do we blow the whistle because the horn went off (which is what we did, but it was after the shot)?

Depends on what the players do. If it is a little horn and the players keep playing then you can ignore it. If any players react and/or stop playing then I'm blowing it dead, finding out if the table needs me, and putting the ball back in play at the POI.

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

The OP wasn't a correctable error situation.

Right, but the table thought it was. I don't see playing through the horn if the table is leaning on it.

Originally Posted by Adam

If the ball is live and the CE window hasn't already passed, you have until the next dead ball to correct it.

Right, but I doubt most tables are going to have the presence of mind to recognize whether the correctable error window has passed or not and hold the horn until the next dead ball. How many tables do you think know the CE rules?