My First Ejection ...

[Al]

Tonight in a Coach-Pitch 8/under game I ejected the head coach (Bears)for arguing the call at the plate. The game was close and the team they were playing never lost a game. The Bears also had a 1st base assistant coach that argued a call by me when the 1st base umpire didn't see if there was a tag or not and asked me to call it. The tag was made and I called her out. The girl knew she was tagged as she went right to the dugout before I even called her out. But the 1st base coach made a comment to me and I said "she was tagged out, let's play". He said something else so I said "open your mouth one more time and you will be leaving the field" ..He didn't say a word, but opened his mouth wide. I said "if a word comes out of that mouth you are out of here" He said nothing, but then the head coach walked over to me as if he was going to say something, but changed his mind and went back toward the circle. So I said let's play ball. But the next inning there was a runner coming home and the catcher had the ball about 5 or 6 feet from the plate. The runners base path was about a foot to the outside of the base line. The fielder attempted to tag her but the runner slowed down a bit and avoided the tag by moving no more than 2 feet away from the tag attempt, which brought her to the grass edge which is 3 feet from the base line. After avoiding the tag she came back to the center of the base line and slid to the plate. SAFE! It was a thing of beauty. She is an excellent base runner, who plays on the travel team and knows her stuff. Anyway, the head coach came over and said "Isn't she's out she left the base line. I said she has 3 feet in either direction from where the attempted tag is being made. Then he pointed about 5 feet into the grass and said she ran there. I said she did not, I was watching her feet...are you arguing a judgment call? He said something about that's two calls you called wrong. I said if you don't stop arguing and get back where you were you are going to be ejected. He didn't move so I said do you want to leave the field? He said I don't care. So I said you're ejected and don't come back for the next game either. So then he starts to go to all the fielders to say good-game. I almost said get off the field now, but decided to just let him do his thing and the clock was running. They were down a couple runs so I figured if he wants to waste his teams time, fine. Then the clown lines up his team and says the game over blue. I said okay you lose 7 to 0 on the forfeit.

After I got home I got a call from the administrator and he said he got a call from that head coach and he wanted to know if I would accept an apology and let him coach the next game. The administrator said that's up to Al, and told the coach if Al says okay it will be only if an apology is made. I told the administrator for the sake of the kids on his team he can coach the next game. I don't expect any Umpires to get any more trouble from him the rest of the season. After the game was forfeited their was a parent of one of the kids on his team arguing with him, and someone told me he said he is going to quit all together. Nothin' like fun at the ole' ball park...

P.S. I thought I would be a nervous wreck, but I feel great about it. I know I made the right calls and I know I did the right thing ejecting him. Also one of the coaches of a Tball team has it all on tape (the entire game) and said he would be glad to let me use it, if I want to show it to anyone. I told him I would like to see it, but I don't need it for proof of anything. ...Al

[Steve M]

Al,
Jeesh. Keeping score & arguing & all that in an 8&U coach-pitch game. What a wonderful example those folks are.

Here's a couple of items for you
"He said something else so I said "open your mouth one more time and you will be leaving the field" ..He didn't say a word, but opened his mouth wide."
Don't use the "one more ..." approach. This guy called your bluff, and you let him. He mocked you, bye. A better approach (when you said "open your mouth...") might be "Coach, we're done. It's time to play ball." Then turn and walk away. If the coach follows you, he is telling you that he wants an early exit - acknowledge that and let him go.

"He said something about that's two calls you called wrong." This coach is immediately gone. He's "keeping score" on what he sees as your performance.

[mcrowder]

"open your mouth one more time and you will be leaving the field" ..He didn't say a word, but opened his mouth wide.

You can't let this happen. He's openly mocking your authority. This action alone should have sent him packing.

As an aside ... don't threaten. Don't say "If you do XXX, (or don't do YYY) you're gone." Just a "That's enough coach" or "We're done here coach" is enough - if he/she persists... bye bye.

"That's two calls you've missed." byebye.

And the 2nd threat. If you make the mistake of making threats, you MUST follow through. He didn't do what you told him to do - and openly mocked you. You gave him an extra chance. Don't.

Last - having umpires responsible for telling coaches they must sit out an extra game, or make decisions about returning is HORRIBLE. First - that's not our job or responsibility. It's league admin's. Second - your Admin hung you out to dry making you decide whether he could return or not. That's his JOB.

Oh well... at least you did dump him - he certainly deserved it.

[CecilOne]

At first I thought - too much ado about 8&U; but then I realized the importance to the kids and how bad sportsmanship in general is. Also,I commend anyone who officiates younger ages because that is where the coaches and fans know the least about the game.

About this specific case:
- those coaches need control and the administrator should have maintained the suspension and made it clear there would be no more chances
- those coaches need control now and they won't go away just because their children get older
- speaking of children, that forfeit was childish, ego-driven and defiant by the coach - also should have incurred a warning from the admin

Most importantly for all of us, regardless of age or level of players, stay away from ultimatums. They rarely solve a problem, usually aggravate the situation and leave the official in a bind. Just say "that's enough", "it's over", "no more", etc.

[NSABlue]

[B]"open your mouth one more time and you will be leaving the field" ..He didn't say a word, but opened his mouth wide.[/B]

I agree with everyone else here. This action by a coach is mocking you and should earn an immediate ejection.

So I said you're ejected and don't come back for the next game either.
I'm really wondering about this one. How do you (as a game umpire) have the authority to suspend a coach from his next game? This is wrong, even if you have the authority. It just sets you up as the bully who abuses his power and sets up a battle the next time you two meet.

Remember, when you wrestle with a pig, pretty soon everyone is all muddy and no one can tell who is who.

You need to be better than that!!

[Skahtboi]

Al, you have been given some sage advice by the previous posters on how to handle these situations. Good to see you out there learning more and more, though. Now, learn from this experience and become an even stronger umpire.

[LIIRISHMAN]

Sad to see Coaches and parents so caught up in winning a 8 and under SB game. As other posters have stated give the warning not a ultimatiumn after that you're not throwing him or her out,there doing it to themselves.

[Al]

Originally Posted by NSABlue

[B]"open your mouth one more time and you will be leaving the field" ..He didn't say a word, but opened his mouth wide.[/B]

I agree with everyone else here. This action by a coach is mocking you and should earn an immediate ejection.

So I said you're ejected and don't come back for the next game either.
I'm really wondering about this one. How do you (as a game umpire) have the authority to suspend a coach from his next game? This is wrong, even if you have the authority. It just sets you up as the bully who abuses his power and sets up a battle the next time you two meet.

Remember, when you wrestle with a pig, pretty soon everyone is all muddy and no one can tell who is who.

You need to be better than that!!

Thanks to all,

When the assistant coach opened his mouth it was indeed to try to be a wise guy. I made it clear exactly what I meant by that by saying if another word comes out of that mouth you are outta here. I know that very first "One More" was a mistake and I'll not do that again. I'll do as you all have rightly suggested. However, NSAblue, I not only have the right to tell the coach he can't come back for the next game; but that's the way the rule reads (USSSA) "If a coach/manager is ejected from a game he must sit out the remainder of that game and the following game. Anyone ejected will be asked to leave the park at the discretion of the umpire. And if the ejected coach refuses... he forfeits the game.

Maybe the administrator should have told him he won't allow any coach that is tossed to come back for the next game, but the way he spoke to me on the phone he sounded as if the coach knew he blew it and was truly sorry and knew better to let down his kids on lousy sportmanship examples. The administrator also said they (Bears) really are frustrated because the team they were playing (Twisters) has a much better team than any in the league, (7 of the their kids played for the travel team all winter). This is an issue that many coaches have with the administrator. They complain it's not fair. The problem is the new coaches didn't know who were the best players when the teams were chosen. But he said they need to find out and it's their own fault for not knowing. The coach for the Twisters was the coach for travel team "Cyclones" so she knew all the best players and got most of them. There has been complaints all season because of this and it just came to a head in this game because the bears had an early lead, then a couple calls went against them.

But, all things being considered, I think the administrator was thinking of the kids, and the situation. Yes, he left it in my hands, but if he allowed the coach to come back without my agreement what would that have taught the coach about respecting umpires? Tonight, if there is no rain out I will accept his apology and move on. Thanks, ..... Al

[mcrowder]

Well, I'll answer that last part.

When you eject - regardless of what the rules say regarding further action - you are ejecting for THAT game. Even though there are rules in place dictating that he is gone for the next, the umpire should not even bring that up. "Coach, you're gone." is enough.

Then, since you did not mention anything about his next game, the whole thing about whether he is out of the next game or not is out of your hands - thus, if the admin felt he learned his lesson and could come back (debateable, but at 8U I'd err on the side of the kids too), it is no disrespect to your authority at all.

Back to the him opening his mouth wide nonsense... it doesn't matter what you said or meant. His action was basically him saying FU to you, and flaunting your authority. Regardless of your exact words or intent - he should be tossed for that alone (ESPECIALLY at younger ages).

[Al]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Well, I'll answer that last part.

When you eject - regardless of what the rules say regarding further action - you are ejecting for THAT game. Even though there are rules in place dictating that he is gone for the next, the umpire should not even bring that up. "Coach, you're gone." is enough.

Then, since you did not mention anything about his next game, the whole thing about whether he is out of the next game or not is out of your hands - thus, if the admin felt he learned his lesson and could come back (debateable, but at 8U I'd err on the side of the kids too), it is no disrespect to your authority at all.

Back to the him opening his mouth wide nonsense... it doesn't matter what you said or meant. His action was basically him saying FU to you, and flaunting your authority. Regardless of your exact words or intent - he should be tossed for that alone (ESPECIALLY at younger ages).

Mcrowder,

I should be paying for this advice and instruction. I'm serious! You guys are doing a really good thing to be sharing your knowledge and experiences with those that are still very green, but desire to get it right in every way. I have learned a lot in the last few games that I may have continued to do wrong for a long time, even with keeping my nose in the rule book. I'll tell ya what I am amazed just how many things there are to learn; and how to apply, as well. I know you, and many others, really love this game and that's why you take the time to help improve the officiating that goes on on thousands of fields. It really makes a difference that you guys may never get to see live, but if there are a lot of umpires like myself I can tell you the game is improved because of your sharing what you learned. Must hurry out the door... Thank you sir! ...Al

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Al

Mcrowder,

I should be paying for this advice and instruction. I'm serious! You guys are doing a really good thing to be sharing your knowledge and experiences with those that are still very green, but desire to get it right in every way. I have learned a lot in the last few games that I may have continued to do wrong for a long time, even with keeping my nose in the rule book. I'll tell ya what I am amazed just how many things there are to learn; and how to apply, as well. I know you, and many others, really love this game and that's why you take the time to help improve the officiating that goes on on thousands of fields. It really makes a difference that you guys may never get to see live, but if there are a lot of umpires like myself I can tell you the game is improved because of your sharing what you learned. Must hurry out the door... Thank you sir! ...Al

Hey! You can pay us if you want to. I believe the going rate that Mike used to charge on another umpiring BB was $.02. (Have we adjusted that considering inflation...etc.?)

[mcrowder]

I think we've all learned a lot from this board. I had to unlearn some bad habits when I first started visiting this board, as the only training I'd had over the past several years was from the same guys every year - and they were teaching things wrong. I love this place.

[CecilOne]

Al, please don't think we're not all learning eevn if it is your question.

A further point about ultimatums. Someone said warning insted of ultimatum, but that is not the point. No warning, either because it has to include some kind of "if". Just say "no more" or anything similar.

new Q: Is is really in the kids' best interest to return a coach who acts like that the next game, rather then have them coached by someone more civilized and learn that misbehavior has consequences.

new comment: personally, I'd have suspended him for pulling the team into a forfeit

[Al]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Al, please don't think we're not all learning eevn if it is your question.

A further point about ultimatums. Someone said warning insted of ultimatum, but that is not the point. No warning, either because it has to include some kind of "if". Just say "no more" or anything similar.

new Q: Is is really in the kids' best interest to return a coach who acts like that the next game, rather then have them coached by someone more civilized and learn that misbehavior has consequences.

new comment: personally, I'd have suspended him for pulling the team into a forfeit

Hey Cecil,

When I explained what happened to my wife she said the same thing you just said about misbehavior having consequeces. She went on to say if the assistant coach that mockingly opened his mouth has any kids he is probably going to have problems some day...They have a way of doing what they see daddy do.

I think him pulling the team into forfeit is what got one of the parents so mad at him. It was only a few seconds after he lined up his team and said the game is over blue that the lady lost her temper. But, really I can understand being upset at him. They pay to have their children play and learn. I think a lot of the parents/grandparents would rather be watching their kid up at bat or fielding a ball, than be going home early cause the coach wanted to make some kind of statement. Sad really. ...Thanks, ..Al

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

new Q: Is is really in the kids' best interest to return a coach who acts like that the next game, rather then have them coached by someone more civilized and learn that misbehavior has consequences.

I don't think so. Though I have known some coaches who, when they were coaching younger ages, were real hotheads and know-nothings. I have seen them, over time, develop as their players have to where now, they are knowledgeable, capable, and rather easy going coaches. Time, and learning the game, can do a lot to mature people of all ages.