"Shooter Changes His Mind" Travel (Video)

[Raymond]

Bump for APG

[APG]

[JRutledge]

This looks like a blocked shot on some level. It does look like he was trying to adjust his shot and probably changed his mind, but I think the defender touched the ball which I would have no violation in that case. At least that is by the angle we are seeing.

Peace

[just another ref]

Violation. Even if he did touch the ball, and it's hard to say from this angle, the touch definitely didn't prevent the release.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Violation. Even if he did touch the ball, and it's hard to say from this angle, the touch definitely didn't prevent the release.

I thought you wouldn't call a violation if another teammate was in the area?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Violation. Even if he did touch the ball, and it's hard to say from this angle, the touch definitely didn't prevent the release.

Agree...touch is not enough to make it legal, the touch has to prevent the release....as in a held ball. You don't call a held ball just because opposing teams touch the ball at the same time.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Agree...touch is not enough to make it legal, the touch has to prevent the release....as in a held ball. You don't call a held ball just because opposing teams touch the ball at the same time.

NCAA rules are different. They have to come back to the floor with the ball unlike the NF rule to have a held ball.

Again, I see this as a blocked shot more than anything. It does look like the shooter tried to change something mid-air but it appears the ball was still kind of knocked out of his hand. If I had any doubt, that is what I would go with an not call a violation. But I am willing to go with a violation if I see a better angle or closer slow-motion view.

Peace

[potato]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Wrong. Player's pivot foot left the floor before he released the ball for the dribble. Traveling.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Wofford @ UT-C
12:35 of 2nd half
MASN (cable network)

A1 goes up to shoot, then changes mind and looks to A2, who has moved from his and doesn't know A1 was looking to him. A1 drops the ball behind A2.

Who says that is a travel right away?
Who doesn't? (me)

Where's a poll when you need one.

BTW, after the ball hits the floor, B1 touches ball first just before A1 does. Play is no-called and B1 ended up with possession.

the example given is not detailed enough, did A1 dropped the ball while still in the air? because what i see the ball left A1 before he landed, whether it was a shot/block/pass/drop doesn't matter.

if A1 becomes the 1st person to touch the ball he intentionally dropped or passed then it's a violation.

but then again after watching the video clearly it's a violation. It was no longer a blocked shot when the shooter decides to lob the ball out, apparently he was the 1st player to touch the ball despite not able to get possession, it was not a fumble so he's not allowed to be the 1st player to touch the ball again, which he intentionally did. Traveling? Double dribble?

[APG]

I literally posted a clip of the play in question potato

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I thought you wouldn't call a violation of another teammate was in the area?

I wouldn't call it immediately if a teammate was in the area. But he was the first to touch, which seals the deal no matter what.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BigCat

i hear what your saying but i think rules require the touch.

Nope. We've had this conversation on the forum several times. The rule for a dribble does not require the ball to be touched after pushing it to the floor.

4.15.4 SITUATION A:

As dribbler A1 attempts to change directions to avoid guard B1, he/she allows the ball to come to rest in one hand in bringing the ball from the right to the left side of the body. A1 pushes the ball to the floor in an attempt to continue the dribble.

RULING: When A1 palmed/carried the ball, the dribble ended and when he/she pushed the ball to the floor a violation occurred. (9-5)

[potato]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I wouldn't call it immediately if a teammate was in the area. But he was the first to touch, which seals the deal no matter what.

but not on the 1st page. i have edited it after seeing the video and added comments before you posted though...

[potato]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

RULING: When A1 palmed/carried the ball, the dribble ended and when he/she pushed the ball to the floor a violation occurred. (9-5)

Well question comes down to how do you determine if it's a Dribble, Pass, Dropped ball & how often would the refs treat such scenarios as a start of a dribble unless the player went & touch/bounce the ball again after ended his dribble. But of course due to the rules being written in black & white, it's technically possible to call any missed bounce pass as a start of a "dribble".

Wouldn't you consider how the play goes & how A1 reacts after he dropped the ball on the floor, and immediately calls for a double dribble the moment the ball bounces on the floor, in this case?

[johnsonboys03]

Originally Posted by just another ref

A subsequent touch is not necessary to define a dribble.

I agree. What is the definition of a dribble? Dropping the ball behind a team ate would be a pass in my book, not a dribble. However I would like to see the play to make final ruling.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by johnsonboys03

I agree. What is the definition of a dribble? Dropping the ball behind a team ate would be a pass in my book, not a dribble. However I would like to see the play to make final ruling.

The definition of a dribble is to push the ball to the floor, one or more times. If the ball is not directed toward another player, I see it as a dribble, whether it is touched again or not.