"Shooter Changes His Mind" Travel (Video)

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Nope. We've had this conversation on the forum several times. The rule for a dribble does not require the ball to be touched after pushing it to the floor.

4.15.4 SITUATION A:

As dribbler A1 attempts to change directions to avoid guard B1, he/she allows the ball to come to rest in one hand in bringing the ball from the right to the left side of the body. A1 pushes the ball to the floor in an attempt to continue the dribble.

RULING: When A1 palmed/carried the ball, the dribble ended and when he/she pushed the ball to the floor a violation occurred. (9-5)

Sorry, i lost track of this thread when they were talking about throwing ball off official.
I agree with your statement above about a DRIBBLE not requiring a touch after pushing it to the floor. that is clearly what the case play you set forth says. however, the OP involves TRAVEL violation 4-44-3/ and 9-4. even though the language used in the case book play i cited says illegal dribble it is travel. that is where the violation is listed in the rules. the case book play i cited 4.44.3 something has virtually the same facts as the OP and requires the player who drops the ball to touch it before there is a violation. here is how I reconcile the two plays.

In your play above, the player has dribbled, ended a dribble by letting ball rest on hand and then pushed it to floor again. when this player pushes ball to floor after leting it rest on his hand he HAS A PIVOT FOOT so he meets the defintion of when a DRIBBLE begins--that being ball pushed to floor etc while pivot foot on floor. i agree with camron, just another and you that judgment is required but if he pushes ball down, like he has done a thousand times before and im 150% sure i will call illegal dribble- 9-5 --he has dribbled again. it is a violation without him touching it again.

in the OP and the 4.44.3, play the player jumps, has both feet off of the floor and drops it to the floor. that play says he has to be first to touch it for a violation. Why? because when he jumps in the air and drops it he does so after pivot foot has been lifted. that action does not meet the definition of when a dribble begins in 4-15. it isnt a dribble at all. as the 4.44.3 play says after the drop subsequent rules apply. the touch makes it travel. confusion is created in the play by using the term "illegal dribble." but as you see, that violation is contained in the travel rule.

so in summary, my position is that the 4-15 play is correct because the player does push ball to floor with pivot foot on ground a second time. it is described as "to continue the dribble." that is the 150% sure scenario for me. the subsequent touch is not necessary to call 9-5, illegal dribble.--- the 4.44.3 case play is correct because that player, in the air, drops it after both feet in air. that act does not meet the definition of when a DRIBBLE BEGINS in 4-15. if, that player, as in case play, is first to touch it, it is TRAVEL. 4-44-3 and 9-4.

Perhaps i am all wrong. if i am, please let me know politely. not because i cant handle your sarcasm, but because i fear, when you do that to folks, others may avoid the discussion because they dont want to be ripped. That IS the best advice I can give. AND...if i'm correct on the above...i wont send you back to freshman ball....like you did Bryan...

Originally Posted by just another ref

Yeah, I get that. I was wondering how it played out and what, if anything, was called.

Sorry, forgot to include a to let you know I was joking.

[APG]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Of course you all know what play we had in our game tonight.

Was at the game...as soon as the play happened, I thought immediately of this thread.

[Lcubed48]

Originally Posted by APG

Was at the game...as soon as the play happened, I thought immediately of this thread.

It's there any video available?

[APG]

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Lcubed48

It's there any video available?

Yes Triple L, APG just posted it below your post. Did you see me?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by APG

Are you going to call a travel, or illegal dribble, we he drops the ball, or if he touches it again?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Are you going to call a travel, or illegal dribble, we he drops the ball, or if he touches it again?

Nobody GAF. It's a violation. That's enough.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jerkins

It's a violation.

Exactly when does the violation occur? When he he drops the ball, or if (tough to see in the video, I don't think he touched it) he touches it again?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Exactly when does the violation occur? When he he drops the ball, or if (tough to see in the video, I don't think he touched it) he touches it again?

In my game, when he touches it again.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

In my game, when he touches it again.

In mine too.

From "The List":

The shooter can retrieve his or her own airball, if the referee considers it to be a shot attempt. The release ends team control. It is not a violation for that player to start another dribble at that point. When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot that is blocked and is unable to release the ball and returns to the floor with it, that player has not traveled; it is a held ball. If, in this situation, the shooter loses control of the ball because of the block, then this is simply a blocked shot and play continues. If, in this situation, the defender simply touches the ball, and the airborne shooter returns to the floor holding the ball, it’s a traveling violation. When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

[Lcubed48]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Yes Triple L, APG just posted it below your post. Did you see me?

Tell me which one is you? I don't want to guess.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Lcubed48

Tell me which one is you? I don't want to guess.

None of those guys are 6'5".

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Are you going to call a travel, or illegal dribble, we he drops the ball, or if he touches it again?

In this case, it was a bit ambiguous, so I'm waiting until he touches it.

[Lcubed48]

Originally Posted by Adam

None of those guys are 6'5".

Yes, BNR is not one of those officials. However, he was one of the officials that made the cut in the local CBS's recap of last night's top rated boy's game. Looking good, young man! Good call from the L on the end of game play.