Shooter Draws Foul (Video)

[APG]

Trying to get back into seeing more and more plays before the start of the season. What say ye? Incidental? Marginal? Illegal?

[Camron Rust]

Despite the cheap nature of the play an my wish that it be otherwise, it is a foul. Both were "responsible" for the contact but the defender is required to maintain LGP and he didn't.

[just another ref]

I think I got nothing. The defender had returned to the floor before the small contact which I don't think had a bearing on the shot.

[Freddy]

Was that a traveling violation prior to whatever contact did/did not occur?

[Raymond]

I'm with JAR on this one. LBJ jumped into a stationary defender.

Traveling under any rule set other than NBA. I don't have a foul at any level, defender returns to the floor before contact occurs, which was initiated by offensive player.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm with JAR on this one. LBJ jumped into a stationary defender.

Not much contact and defender seemed to hit ground before whatever contact there was. Lebron jumping around him almost. I let this one go.

If Lebron jumps into defender while defender is in air and moving towards him. (Mid air collision with more contact) I'd call the foul on defender.

As was mentioned earlier, Defender has to rise straight up. Think the play is in college case book.

[twocentsworth]

This is a foul under ANY rule set you choose to use…Once the defender moves forward towards the shooter (whether while on the floor or in the air), he has lost LGP. The contact is his responsibility.

[JRutledge]

I have LBJ jumping into a defender that has already come back to the floor. I probably would pass on this if I saw this play clearly.

Peace

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

This is a foul under ANY rule set you choose to use…Once the defender moves forward towards the shooter (whether while on the floor or in the air), he has lost LGP. The contact is his responsibility.

The defender stopped moving forward before the shooter left his feet. I don't know how the NBA works, but in high school, this looks like nothing to me. The defender is on the floor, straight up when the shooter leaves his feet.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

This is a foul under ANY rule set you choose to use…Once the defender moves forward towards the shooter (whether while on the floor or in the air), he has lost LGP. The contact is his responsibility.

I get where you are coming from. defender jumps forward, lands and is turned sideways. not in guarding position…defense is responsible for contact even when Lebron jumps in…
i'm not going to say that official is wrong under the rules for calling that a foul.
But on this play, in that circumstance, I want to see MORE contact. If Lebron gets a bigger piece of the guy when he jumps in then i will need to make a call and will call it on defense cause he is sideways etc. That is what I think about the play. thx

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I get where you are coming from. defender jumps forward, lands and is turned sideways.

If you get to a spot first (considering any airborne or moving player issues)and are stationary, then it doesn't matter which way you face. LGP just gives you *extra* allowed movement.

[Freddy]

Aside from what call you'd make, how 'bout some analysis of the coverage in the clip and the coverage you'd provide on a similar play?
If/when this play happens and you must make a call/no call, consider all that needs close scrutiny:
> defender's LGP or lack thereof
> ballhandler's possibility of traveling
> ballhandler's violation of defender's vertical, if LGP attained
> ballhandler's il/legal/marginal contact
> defender's il/legal/marginal contact
That's a full plate. Who's helping whom on this situation?
Is it correct that in this clip both C and T had a call on this, and C took it to the table?
If the play transitioned from T's backcourt to C's primary there, who should be looking at what? Would a travel be something the T would be looking for while C considered il/legal contact his priority, like between C and L in the post?
Any comments on the preferred coverage responsiblties here?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If you get to a spot first (considering any airborne or moving player issues)and are stationary, then it doesn't matter which way you face. LGP just gives you *extra* allowed movement.

Bob, my thoughts….

if the defensive player steps into the path of the offensive player he is considered to be attempting to guard. to be legal he has to have both feet down….front of torso facing opponent. he can jump but must be in his vertical plane. If I'm dribbling and you step in my path sideways with your shoulder facing me and we crash i believe foul is on you even though you got to the spot first and were stationary. your torso didn't face me.

In the video, this defensive player is trying to guard Lebron. He "while in the path" of Lebron jumps up and forward. if he ever had LGP he lost it when he jumped forward out of his vertical plane. When he lands he is still "in the path" of Lebron. His feet are on the floor but his torso doesn't face Lebron. ( i don't think it did) I don't think he re established legal guarding position. the fact that his feet got down before contact isn't enough imo.

As i said i wouldn't call foul cause not enough contact. i don't think the defensive players positioning in the video is legal.

maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to say---- thx

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If you get to a spot first (considering any airborne or moving player issues)and are stationary, then it doesn't matter which way you face. LGP just gives you *extra* allowed movement.

True, but in this case, I don't agree that the defender has stopped moving. He jumped forward quite a bit and, at best, he has one foot down when the first point of contact began and was still moving....thus he still required LGP.

The calling official had a great view of the play too....and had a foul.