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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 02:01am
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Shooter Draws Foul (Video)
Trying to get back into seeing more and more plays before the start of the season. What say ye? Incidental? Marginal? Illegal?

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Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 02:10am
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Despite the cheap nature of the play an my wish that it be otherwise, it is a foul. Both were "responsible" for the contact but the defender is required to maintain LGP and he didn't.
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Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 02:33am
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I think I got nothing. The defender had returned to the floor before the small contact which I don't think had a bearing on the shot.
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Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 05:41am
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Nice One to Warm Up On
Was that a traveling violation prior to whatever contact did/did not occur?
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Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 07:03am
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I'm with JAR on this one. LBJ jumped into a stationary defender.
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Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 08:11am
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Traveling under any rule set other than NBA. I don't have a foul at any level, defender returns to the floor before contact occurs, which was initiated by offensive player.
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Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 08:31am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
I'm with JAR on this one. LBJ jumped into a stationary defender.
Not much contact and defender seemed to hit ground before whatever contact there was. Lebron jumping around him almost. I let this one go.

If Lebron jumps into defender while defender is in air and moving towards him. (Mid air collision with more contact) I'd call the foul on defender.

As was mentioned earlier, Defender has to rise straight up. Think the play is in college case book.
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Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 11:15am
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Full plate: How to eat it . . . ?
Aside from what call you'd make, how 'bout some analysis of the coverage in the clip and the coverage you'd provide on a similar play?
If/when this play happens and you must make a call/no call, consider all that needs close scrutiny:
> defender's LGP or lack thereof
> ballhandler's possibility of traveling
> ballhandler's violation of defender's vertical, if LGP attained
> ballhandler's il/legal/marginal contact
> defender's il/legal/marginal contact
That's a full plate. Who's helping whom on this situation?
Is it correct that in this clip both C and T had a call on this, and C took it to the table?
If the play transitioned from T's backcourt to C's primary there, who should be looking at what? Would a travel be something the T would be looking for while C considered il/legal contact his priority, like between C and L in the post?
Any comments on the preferred coverage responsiblties here?
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Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 01:09pm
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1. The defender returned to the floor before contact occurred.
2. The shooter was as much the cause of contact as the defender.

I have no whistle.
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Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 02:15pm
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More food for thought: from a Fed rules perspective, the rules state a defender must attain LGP by having both feet on the floor and the front part of the defender's torso must be facing the opponent.

The second criteria does not appear to have been met in this video.
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Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 02:49pm
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I feel the defender had landed and stopped moving forward before the contact. However I don't want to debate that part. Assuming I am correct about that my question is the following. Is LGP, the direction the defender is facing, even an issue? I don't feel it is but would like to hear others thoughts.
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Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 03:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy341a View Post
I feel the defender had landed and stopped moving forward before the contact. However I don't want to debate that part. Assuming I am correct about that my question is the following. Is LGP, the direction the defender is facing, even an issue? I don't feel it is but would like to hear others thoughts.
It is an issue to establish LGP. Once established, it is not. So the Defender had LGP, jumped forward towards the defender (thus losing LGP), and does not appear to have regained/reestablished LGP because he was not facing his opponent with 2 feet on the ground.

A no call, in my opinion, would have to be based on a judgement that the contact was incidental as described in 4-27, not because the defender was in LGP.
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Old Thu Nov 06, 2014, 03:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HokiePaul View Post
It is an issue to establish LGP. Once established, it is not. So the Defender had LGP, jumped forward towards the defender (thus losing LGP), and does not appear to have regained/reestablished LGP because he was not facing his opponent with 2 feet on the ground.

A no call, in my opinion, would have to be based on a judgement that the contact was incidental as described in 4-27, not because the defender was in LGP.
What I'm saying is that does he even need legal guarding position if he beats the offensive player to the spot and is stationary.
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