The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #31 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 31, 2014, 09:25am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Where did you get 3 seconds?
I was giving an example. If I was observing the player with the ball, and he held the ball for 3 seconds but wasn't closely guarded, then I'm not going to have a visible count, but I still know that he was guarded for 3 seconds and I could still use that information to correct a timing mistake. For someone to suggest that that would only be a "guess" because there was no visible count is ridiculous.
Reply With Quote
  #32 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 31, 2014, 12:16pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokiePaul View Post
I was giving an example. If I was observing the player with the ball, and he held the ball for 3 seconds but wasn't closely guarded, then I'm not going to have a visible count, but I still know that he was guarded for 3 seconds and I could still use that information to correct a timing mistake. For someone to suggest that that would only be a "guess" because there was no visible count is ridiculous.
I never suggested that. I don't happen to agree that a visible count is necessary: that's a legitimate point of contention.

If you have a mental count, that's enough. If you're not counting in your head, though, that's not definite knowledge: it's a guess.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 31, 2014, 12:33pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
I never suggested that. I don't happen to agree that a visible count is necessary: that's a legitimate point of contention.

If you have a mental count, that's enough. If you're not counting in your head, though, that's not definite knowledge: it's a guess.
I apologize. I misread your statement below to mean a visible count.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
If I don't have a count, I'm not doing anything, because I don't have enough information.

However, it was suggested by others that a visible count is required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB View Post
Can't use a three second count to take time off the clock, it must be a visible count.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
I agree. Any count which is going to be used to remove time needs to be a visible count in this age of video. I'm not getting called in later to defend a mental count. The arm swings will show up on the video.
Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 31, 2014, 12:41pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokiePaul View Post
I apologize. I misread your statement below to mean a visible count.




However, it was suggested by others that a visible count is required.
No worries, I realized the misunderstanding. It's not blatantly clear, but I had already agreed with bob when he challenged the post by SNIPER.

I will say this, though. If I'm going to end a quarter on my count, I'm using a visible count. I want THAT on tape.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #35 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 31, 2014, 01:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 1,198
Our association wants a visible count to be used. Time is a very subjective measure and one persons count can be much slower or faster than what a clock would measure.
Reply With Quote
  #36 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 31, 2014, 01:12pm
AremRed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB View Post
Time is a very subjective measure and one persons count can be much slower or faster than what a clock would measure.
That's true of visible counts too...
Reply With Quote
  #37 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 31, 2014, 01:16pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB View Post
Our association wants a visible count to be used. Time is a very subjective measure and one persons count can be much slower or faster than what a clock would measure.
Do what your association wants, but that's different than claiming it's required by rule.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #38 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 31, 2014, 05:43pm
AremRed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
The rulebook says very little about visible counts and what counts as "definite knowledge", how do you guys define that?
Reply With Quote
  #39 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 31, 2014, 07:23pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
My Opinion ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
The rulebook says very little about visible counts and what counts as "definite knowledge", how do you guys define that?
For me personally, it's when I have a visible count, or when I'm consciously counting in my head (as in the last few seconds of a period, especially the last period).

For me definite knowledge would never be me mentally going back and trying to remember how much time had passed (unless I was actually counting). If I'm not counting, then it's not definite knowledge.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #40 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 31, 2014, 07:38pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes View Post
Are you kidding me? You chose to ignore fouls just because you had a blarge?? Why didn't you report BOTH fouls? And then get to the locker room at halftime or after the game and discuss with your partner the theories of PRIMARY AREAS and PATIENT WHISTLES?!?
I missed that part the first time I responded to it, he added it later.

Agreed. Of all the possible ways to implement a blarge, that is perhaps the absolute worst.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #41 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 31, 2014, 07:46pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
As far as using a visible count at the end of the quarter, I don't. I don't feel the need to prove it to anybody, and what if the guy with the ball sees it and wrongly assumes it's a closely guarded count.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #42 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 31, 2014, 08:50pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
As far as using a visible count at the end of the quarter, I don't. I don't feel the need to prove it to anybody, and what if the guy with the ball sees it and wrongly assumes it's a closely guarded count.
And you don't have to (prove it). That's a personal preference for me, because I may well end the quarter with 3 seconds on the clock. If I'm going to do something no one in the gym has likely ever seen happen, I just prefer to have as much back-up as possible.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #43 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 31, 2014, 09:13pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
If I'm going to do something no one in the gym has likely ever seen happen, I just prefer to have as much back-up as possible.

This is a very reasonable attitude, but it also backs up my point. Nobody's ever seen this, so if they see the visible count, they're going to think it's something else.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #44 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 01, 2015, 02:23pm
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutantducky View Post

I don't always go by the rulebook if a situation doesn't call for it. (Of course 99.9% of the times you should!!!) I had one of my first blarge calls earlier this season, and just called both coaches over who saw that the play could have gone either way. The game was running well and we just told them instead of working that out we will just say two( ha) inadvertent whistles and did POI. Both coaches were good with it as both wanted to avoid fouls on their key players involved in the play. Quick clear-up and things worked out well after. Yes, normally I would call it by the book here, but this was a game with good coaches and players where it could have been avoided without the blarge mess.
What in the actual ****?

There is so much wrong here. The only thing I'll say is officiate as if every game of yours is being recorded and could end up on YouTube. Do you want to be seen on tape misapplying a rule? You (and your partner) have already screwed up mechanically...don't **** it up even more with a rules misapplication.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Test Question tw1ns Baseball 7 Sat Apr 16, 2011 06:15pm
Test Question Snake~eyes Basketball 1 Mon Nov 14, 2005 09:52pm
Test question just another ref Basketball 6 Thu Nov 10, 2005 08:24am
Question About the Test ref18 Basketball 17 Tue Oct 25, 2005 07:36am
Question RE: Fed Test 1231234 Softball 3 Fri Feb 25, 2005 09:13am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:28am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1