Video Request: Dec. 19 Arizona-UTEP Traveling???

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

For those who say: This is a travel, but it is not called at (whatever) level. Is this okay with you? Do you not call it either because you've been instructed not to? Or because nobody else does and you don't want to be the only one? Or what?

No answers forthcoming to this question. It's like having a "funny" relative. Everybody knows it's a problem. Nobody wants to talk about it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

No answers forthcoming to this question. It's like having a "funny" relative. Everybody knows it's a problem. Nobody wants to talk about it.

Problem? That is a little overblown. We are not going to get all travels, no matter how many ways you want to try to act like high school officials are so perfect on this violation.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Problem? That is a little overblown. We are not going to get all travels, no matter how many ways you want to try to act like high school officials are so perfect on this violation.

Peace

BNR made the statement here that these were travels, but they are seldom called. He is not the first to put it like this. If something is a violation, but is "seldom called", that indicates that it is being intentionally ignored, as opposed to being frequently missed. But I have never heard an explanation why. I'm still not totally comfortable with the way we (don't) call 3 seconds, but that, as far as I'm concerned, is not even close to this.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

BNR made the statement here that these were travels, but they are seldom called. He is not the first to put it like this. If something is a violation, but is "seldom called", that indicates that it is being intentionally ignored, as opposed to being frequently missed. But I have never heard an explanation why. I'm still not totally comfortable with the way we (don't) call 3 seconds, but that, as far as I'm concerned, is not even close to this.

He did not say they were intentionally ignored. Something that is rarely called can also be that way because it is hard to tell. We get the benefit of replay, open look and can look at it over and over to determine. An official on a game has one shot and has to not only see the pivot foot, determine when the violation actually took place. If you do not see it properly, it is not going to be called. I would rather miss a "technical" travel than call one that was not there at all.

And yes you have heard many explanations, you just ignore what you are being told. I know I have said this to you more than once.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

He did not say they were intentionally ignored. Something that is rarely called can also be that way because it is hard to tell. We get the benefit of replay, open look and can look at it over and over to determine. An official on a game has one shot and has to not only see the pivot foot, determine when the violation actually took place. If you do not see it properly, it is not going to be called. I would rather miss a "technical" travel than call one that was not there at all.

Do you think it was hard to tell on any of these?


I, too, would rather miss one than call one that was wrong. But I would rather call one wrong than "miss" ten, and I think that ratio may be conservative.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Do you think it was hard to tell on any of these?


I, too, would rather miss one than call one that was wrong. But I would rather call one wrong than "miss" ten, and I think that ratio may be conservative.

Yes, it is in real time often.

Peace

Originally Posted by just another ref

For those who say: This is a travel, but it is not called at (whatever) level. Is this okay with you? Do you not call it either because you've been instructed not to? Or because nobody else does and you don't want to be the only one? Or what?

I don't work that level but I frequently no-call these moves at the HS/AAU level. To answer your questions, yes that is okay with me. I have not received instruction on calling/not calling traveling, other than the PoE. Others do call these but many officials let them go as well. Like it or not a few rules (traveling, 3 seconds, carrying, etc.) have been suspended in favor of a more attractive brand of basketball for the viewer. To be frank, people don't want to see a "by the book" violation-filled basketball game, which had led to the increased use of advantage/disadvantage philosophy in the calling of these violations.

Not to say I agree with this move but I referee to the expectations of my supervisors.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Others do call these but many officials let them go as well.

This is the problem. We have a black and white rule, as opposed to varying judgment on whether or not to make a call. He lifted the pivot, then put it back down, but some choose to let it go to create "a more attractive brand of basketball for the viewer."


This creates inconsistency, which is our worst enemy as officials.

[Rich1]

I have a travel in all three video examples and call this any time I see it. If a pivot foot is established and it comes off the floor and is then put back down it is a travel. The dribbler can't pick up the ball, plant his right foot, spin onto his left foot, and then replant his right foot on the way to the basket (or any where else) when I'm on the whistle.

Now, if I am not sure he planted the first foot before clutching the ball then I can't call the violation - call it a miss if you want but if it is that close or I am not sure then I don't guess. I know refs who say anytime a player spins like this it should be assumed they traveled but that's not any better than those who choose to ignore it.

I do think I get more grief from coaches for calling it because so many do not. I agree with other posters that its a rule that beeds to be consistently enforced. I also know tat not everyone has the experience or ability to pick up on the smaller nuances of the game such as this which is why they do not see the travel when it occurs.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

This is the problem. We have a black and white rule, as opposed to varying judgment on whether or not to make a call. He lifted the pivot, then put it back down, but some choose to let it go to create "a more attractive brand of basketball for the viewer."


This creates inconsistency, which is our worst enemy as officials.

There were just a bulletin put out by the NCAA Men's side and John Adams showing several travels called. So travels are being called but once again, they are not easy to identify. And I could show you the same situation with HS officials. It has nothing to do with level.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So travels are being called but once again, they are not easy to identify.

All three in the video in this thread are very easy to identify. Do you disagree?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So travels are being called but once again, they are not easy to identify.

Originally Posted by just another ref

All three in the video in this thread are very easy to identify. Do you disagree?

Rut often ignores direct questions.

[Rich]

Some people are truly obsessed about traveling. Shrug.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Rut often ignores direct questions.

I have actually answered your question. But I think like a guy that goes to a strip club or the casino all the time, people like yourself are often obsessed over this issue.

Travels are missed every single game, by either having them called improperly or if we do not call them. We have isolated a few plays and you act like there is an epidemic. I did not see the entire game to even know what is or is a trend. And why I told you that I saw some calls on the NCAA video that showed travels. I wonder do you really watch basketball because I see travels called all the time. But like other a lot of plays we can go back and see if we know for sure if they were correct. It is like block-charge calls. If they were missed, they were missed, it is not a tragedy like you are making it to be.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

All three in the video in this thread are very easy to identify. Do you disagree?

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have actually answered your question.

Must have missed it. What was the answer?