Count the basket?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BatteryPowered

First...to MD Longhorn,

The only way I have any idea about what my partner called was due to the initial report after his whistle and actions. While you are correct that I did not see the foul he called because I was on the three-point shooter it is equally true that he should have no idea if the shot should have counted because he should have (apparently was) focused on the action in the lane. I know for a fact that I heard his whistle a split second before the arching shot hit the net. I usually do not have a count during the flight of a shot so I do not know how long it was after the shot...my guess is a second or two.

As I said, he was so emphatic and demonstrative that, given the lop sided nature of the game, I chose not to go to him and discuss it then. It everyone wants to get onto me for that failing I will take it. If it would have been a tight game I would have certainly gone to him when everything unfolded.

This guy didn't like to talk...period. Having a pre-game was like pulling teeth. If he said 10 words I would be surprised. After a couple of points and it being obvious he didn't want to contribute I approached it by saying the approach I normally take (talking to the players early, strictly calling the hands on the dribbler from the start, etc.). He just nodded.

Afterwards I said I wanted to discuss the play and he said "Nothing to discuss." I asked a couple of questions about the situation in theory (don't remember the exact wording) and he just kept changing clothes without acknowledging my presence.

Tonight I will look in the books (rule and case) to see exactly when the ball would have become dead and study the relevant examples.

I would have handled the entire situation just as you did.
Let him make this determination as he is the one who called the foul and he didn't want any input from you about anything over the course of the entire game.
There is a reason that your assignor has him working blow-out girls games. Unfortunate that you had to deal with him as a partner. No fun.

[paxsonref]

Posted on Arbiter - NCAA Women

DATE:

11/25/2014

RULE:

2-7-12, 6-5-1-f

QUESTION:

If we have an offensive foul (i.e. illegal screen) that occurs before the ball is released for a try, but the whistle does not sound until after the try is in flight, would we have to count the basket if it is made and then possibly shoot 1-and-1 bonus (if applicable) at the other end since there is no team control on a shot? I am led to believe this based on the 11/6 interp, but feel that we are rewarding the offense for an illegal act. I have a video of just such a play if you need to see it.

Would it make more sense to have the interp worded as such:

When the official has definitive knowledge that the foul happened prior to the release of the ball (for offensive fouls) or prior to the beginning of the try motion (for defensive fouls), then the shot shall be waved off. When the official does not have definitive knowledge, the sounding of the whistle will determine when the foul happened.

ANSWER:

The interpretation that was posted was based on previous responses to this question which may or may not have been made available to a wider audience. The rule is clear that the whistle sounds when a foul occurs (Rule 2-7.12) and the timer does not stop the clock until an official signals (again, present tense) a foul (Rule 5-11.1.a). A foul has not occurred until the whistle is blown. Previously, there was a video bulletin (2010-11, Video Bulletin #5 - Illegal Screen with Successful Try) which gives guidance for when it may be “too close to call” in determining whether or not the act of shooting occurred before or after a defensive foul not committed against the shooter or whether the ball is in flight before a team control foul occurs.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by paxsonref

Posted on Arbiter - NCAA Women

DATE:

11/25/2014

RULE:

2-7-12, 6-5-1-f

QUESTION:

If we have an offensive foul (i.e. illegal screen) that occurs before the ball is released for a try, but the whistle does not sound until after the try is in flight, would we have to count the basket if it is made and then possibly shoot 1-and-1 bonus (if applicable) at the other end since there is no team control on a shot? I am led to believe this based on the 11/6 interp, but feel that we are rewarding the offense for an illegal act. I have a video of just such a play if you need to see it.

Would it make more sense to have the interp worded as such:

When the official has definitive knowledge that the foul happened prior to the release of the ball (for offensive fouls) or prior to the beginning of the try motion (for defensive fouls), then the shot shall be waved off. When the official does not have definitive knowledge, the sounding of the whistle will determine when the foul happened.

ANSWER:

The interpretation that was posted was based on previous responses to this question which may or may not have been made available to a wider audience. The rule is clear that the whistle sounds when a foul occurs (Rule 2-7.12) and the timer does not stop the clock until an official signals (again, present tense) a foul (Rule 5-11.1.a). A foul has not occurred until the whistle is blown. Previously, there was a video bulletin (2010-11, Video Bulletin #5 - Illegal Screen with Successful Try) which gives guidance for when it may be “too close to call” in determining whether or not the act of shooting occurred before or after a defensive foul not committed against the shooter or whether the ball is in flight before a team control foul occurs.

There's so much wrong with that interpretation, but I'll stick with the fact that we're not talking about NCAAW rules here, so I don't have to worry about this particular wrong interpretation.

Someone needs to vet that crap before it gets published.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Adam

There's so much wrong with that interpretation, but I'll stick with the fact that we're not talking about NCAAW rules here, so I don't have to worry about this particular wrong interpretation.

Someone needs to vet that crap before it gets published.

Absolutely! Sounds like Mary Struckhoff screwing up the NCAA rules just as she used to do with the NFHS rules. So sad.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Absolutely! Sounds like Mary Struckhoff screwing up the NCAA rules just as she used to do with the NFHS rules. So sad.

You know Mary's not involved anymore, right?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You know Mary's not involved anymore, right?

Doesn't Mary have something to do with NCAA Softball? I thought she left the NFHS to go to the NCAA but I do not remember in what capacity.

MTD, Sr.