The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 17, 2014, 07:41pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,374
Visible Count ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
May an official call a 5 second closely guarded violation based on "five seconds in his head", not having given the mandatory visual count?
Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
... there may be times here and there when you skip a few arm strokes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
... the number in my head and the number of arm strokes I've issued are not always exactly the same, and that's ok because I'm the only one who knows.
Maybe twenty-five years ago you would have been "the only one who knows". In 2014, almost everyone in the gymnasium has a video camera, pretty much anyone with a cell phone. Johnny "loses" the game on a late in the game ten second backcourt violation, and the next day Grandma emails the coach with proof that there were only eight visible counts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
... but sometimes it happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokiePaul View Post
But I'd rather apply the rule correctly even if it didn't look good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
Visibly count as often as you can, but using good judgment there may be times here and there when you skip a few arm strokes.
It happens to me a couple of times each season. Sometimes it takes me a few seconds (brain fart) to realize that there's a closely guarded situation. I give it four visible counts, and call the violation knowing that it was probably six, or seven seconds. Someday, I'm going to get caught red handed on "Candid Camera". Hopefully I can explain it away by concentrating on the actual time rather than on the visible count.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Dec 17, 2014 at 07:44pm.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 17, 2014, 07:46pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Johnny "loses" the game on a late in the game ten second backcourt violation, and the next day Grandma emails the coach with proof that there were only eight visible counts.
So what? Assuming the count was reasonably accurate, the video will also prove that. The lack of a visible 10 second count puts nobody at a disadvantage.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 17, 2014, 07:58pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,374
Still A Good Idea To Have A Visible Count ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
So what? Assuming the count was reasonably accurate, the video will also prove that.
Already got it covered:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I can explain it away by concentrating on the actual time rather than on the visible count.
This is the statement that I was questioning:

Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
I'm the only one who knows.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Dec 17, 2014 at 08:01pm.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 17, 2014, 08:00pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
So what? Assuming the count was reasonably accurate, the video will also prove that. The lack of a visible 10 second count puts nobody at a disadvantage.
I agree. It's different than a 5 second count, in that there's no "closely guarded" judgment involved. Everyone knows you have 10 seconds to get across the line. With 5 seconds, it's assumed that if you're not counting, then the player isn't in jeopardy.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 17, 2014, 08:05pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,374
Not Closely Guraded ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
With 5 seconds, it's assumed that if you're not counting, then the player isn't in jeopardy.
We (Connecticut IAABO) did away with the "not closely guarded" signal (it looked like the sixty-second timeout signal) this year after using it for a couple of years, for the exact reason stated by Adam.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:30pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
We (Connecticut IAABO) did away with the "not closely guarded" signal (it looked like the sixty-second timeout signal) this year after using it for a couple of years, for the exact reason stated by Adam.

As a college official and even after the NFHS adopted the CCA signal I have never (with apologies to the late J. Dallas Shirley) used the signal. If I am not giving a visual count it means I do not have a Closely Guarded Situation.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
5 Second Count Refsmitty Basketball 20 Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:01pm
25-second count Forksref Football 33 Tue Aug 24, 2004 04:08pm
25-second Count with 4-man Ed Hickland Football 10 Mon Aug 23, 2004 04:59pm
10 second count Tom Grady Lacrosse 1 Fri Apr 23, 2004 09:49pm
10 second count Ridgeben Basketball 6 Fri Oct 31, 2003 11:13am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:01am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1