The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 12, 2014, 10:11pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
By The Book ...

I know that this topic has been discussed here on the Forum a while back, but I decided to resurrect it because it really happened in my girls varsity game tonight.

Before the pregame ten minute mark, both head coaches requested to have players' names added to the official book because they expected these players to eventually show up, but due to transportation issues, they would probably be late.

We allowed them to add the names.

By the book, as a written test question, were we correct?
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 12, 2014, 10:19pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: PG County, MD
Posts: 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I know that this topic has been discussed here on the Forum a while back, but I decided to resurrect it because it really happened in my girls varsity game tonight.

Before the pregame ten minute mark, both head coaches requested to have players' names added to the official book because they expected these players to eventually show up, but due to transportation issues, they would probably be late.

We allowed them to add the names.

By the book, as a written test question, were we correct?
10-1
ART. 2

A team shall not:

After the 10-minute time limit specified in Article 1:
b. Add a name to the team member list.

So, were you correct?
__________________
You learn something new everyday ...
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 12, 2014, 11:13pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I know that this topic has been discussed here on the Forum a while back, but I decided to resurrect it because it really happened in my girls varsity game tonight.

Before the pregame ten minute mark, both head coaches requested to have players' names added to the official book because they expected these players to eventually show up, but due to transportation issues, they would probably be late.

We allowed them to add the names.

By the book, as a written test question, were we correct?
Before the 10-minute mark, they can erase the whole damn roster and replace it with another.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 12, 2014, 11:18pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I know that this topic has been discussed here on the Forum a while back, but I decided to resurrect it because it really happened in my girls varsity game tonight.

Before the pregame ten minute mark, both head coaches requested to have players' names added to the official book because they expected these players to eventually show up, but due to transportation issues, they would probably be late.

We allowed them to add the names.

By the book, as a written test question, were we correct?
as a test question i dont think it is correct. the team is to provide you with name and number of each "team member." team member is defined somewhere in the book as a player, in uniform, eligible to play.

technically speaking you may have to wait until they show up to add them to the book and then assess the T. i would have done what you did....
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 13, 2014, 12:28am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,280
I'm not making them wait until the player shows up to add them to the book. If they want to put them in the book, put them in there. That's not a booger I want to pick.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 13, 2014, 05:34am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 559
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
as a test question i dont think it is correct. the team is to provide you with name and number of each "team member." team member is defined somewhere in the book as a player, in uniform, eligible to play.

technically speaking you may have to wait until they show up to add them to the book and then assess the T. i would have done what you did....

Rule reference please? I'm not seeing it.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 13, 2014, 08:26am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
as a test question i dont think it is correct. the team is to provide you with name and number of each "team member." team member is defined somewhere in the book as a player, in uniform, eligible to play.

technically speaking you may have to wait until they show up to add them to the book and then assess the T. i would have done what you did....
So if a team has two vans transporting the kids to a school and the coach/manager arrives in one of them 15 minutes before the scheduled tip-off and submits the roster and then learns that the other van got a flat tire and won't arrive until two minutes before the scheduled start time, are you saying that all of the names of the kids in the second van must have their names removed?
1. That's absurd. 2. There is no rule requiring that.

I had a JV game last week in which a kid forgot his jersey at home, so a parent went back to get it. He warmed up in a t-shirt and was listed in the book as normal with his jersey number. He simply didn't participate until after his parent arrived with his jersey. Now since he wasn't "in uniform" do you believe that he wasn't a team member at the beginning of that contest? He most certainly is a member of the team.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 13, 2014, 09:01am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
Written Test Question ...

Remember, I'm not talking about realistic officiating here. I slept well last night after allowing those names to be added to the book.

I'm really interested in this as a by-the-rulebook written test question, like one of those tricky questions that the NFHS, or IAABO, comes up with every year.

Please continue discussing.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 13, 2014, 10:32am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: PG County, MD
Posts: 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Remember, I'm not talking about realistic officiating here. I slept well last night after allowing those names to be added to the book.

I'm really interested in this as a by-the-rulebook written test question, like one of those tricky questions that the NFHS, or IAABO, comes up with every year.

Please continue discussing.
Ok, well article 1 states ...
ART. 1

A team shall not:

Fail to supply the scorer with the name and number of each team member who may participate ...

So, if they show up after the 10 min mark, and the official scorer already has their info, seems like they've met the requirement. Remember, the requirement is to provide the official scorer with the required information. Not make sure they are in the book by the 10 min mark.
__________________
You learn something new everyday ...
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 13, 2014, 10:33am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Remember, I'm not talking about realistic officiating here. I slept well last night after allowing those names to be added to the book.

I'm really interested in this as a by-the-rulebook written test question, like one of those tricky questions that the NFHS, or IAABO, comes up with every year.

Please continue discussing.
Billy, if there's no rule against it....
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 13, 2014, 10:34am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Houghton, MI
Posts: 17
You handled it properly. The book can be modified up until the ten minute mark without any issue. Players can arrive late as long as their number and name are in the book there shouldn't be any penalty.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 13, 2014, 11:25am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
So if a team has two vans transporting the kids to a school and the coach/manager arrives in one of them 15 minutes before the scheduled tip-off and submits the roster and then learns that the other van got a flat tire and won't arrive until two minutes before the scheduled start time, are you saying that all of the names of the kids in the second van must have their names removed?
1. That's absurd. 2. There is no rule requiring that.

I had a JV game last week in which a kid forgot his jersey at home, so a parent went back to get it. He warmed up in a t-shirt and was listed in the book as normal with his jersey number. He simply didn't participate until after his parent arrived with his jersey. Now since he wasn't "in uniform" do you believe that he wasn't a team member at the beginning of that contest? He most certainly is a member of the team.
HE ASKED IT AS A TEST QUESTION-- NOT REALITY--
Rule 3 says give names and numbers of all TEAM MEMBERS. TEAM MEMBERS are defined 4-34 as players in uniform eligible to participate. just based on these two things i could see a test question and an NFHS answer (absurd) saying players have to be in uniform before you can add them to book.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 13, 2014, 11:39am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
HE ASKED IT AS A TEST QUESTION-- NOT REALITY--
Rule 3 says give names and numbers of all TEAM MEMBERS. TEAM MEMBERS are defined 4-34 as players in uniform eligible to participate. just based on these two things i could see a test question and an NFHS answer (absurd) saying players have to be in uniform before you can add them to book.
That would surprise even me. There's no rule against it, it's normal practice (some coaches just submit a full roster every time even if players are sick or academically ineligible for the week), and no one really cares.

The NFHS can come up with some weird rulings, but I'd be shocked if this one ever came out. I'd eat my basketball belt.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 13, 2014, 12:08pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
HE ASKED IT AS A TEST QUESTION-- NOT REALITY--
Rule 3 says give names and numbers of all TEAM MEMBERS. TEAM MEMBERS are defined 4-34 as players in uniform eligible to participate. just based on these two things i could see a test question and an NFHS answer (absurd) saying players have to be in uniform before you can add them to book.
If the players aren't there, how do you know they aren't in uniform?
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 13, 2014, 12:20pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
If the players aren't there, how do you know they aren't in uniform?
the team member provision is included with the bench person reference. says i think team member IS in uniform and IS eligible to participate. if your not there your not on bench and your not eligible to go in...until you get there..

i have them put everybody down. i'm not arguing player has to be there...im just looking at those two provisions and saying i could see a goofy test question saying they all have to be there...there is the provision saying penalty to add a name to list after 10 minute mark. if you can write them all down to begin with you never have to add a name...

again, im just looking at this as a test type situation. i can see from these provisions that they could declare you have to be there in uniform....before name goes in book...that would be dumb, stupid and every other adjective...but i've seen dumb, stupid before....
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rules book and case book bigjohn Football 39 Tue Oct 23, 2012 07:16pm
NFHS Rules book & case book on my phone. referee99 Basketball 28 Wed Jan 11, 2012 06:17am
Rule book and Case book correlation? resin113 Basketball 3 Mon Oct 10, 2011 02:09pm
NCAA rule book and case book SAK Basketball 11 Mon Jul 13, 2009 08:36am
Best book (besides rule book) for learning rules? Johnny Cakes Football 2 Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:43am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:04am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1